S07 E08 – Empathy, Client Education, and How To Shift Your Ideal Client As You Grow with Kate Gilbert

Live In The Feast - Kate Gilbert

Today’s co-host is Kate Gilbert. Kate is a WordPress expert, an online marketing coach, and has spent the past decade building and supporting custom WordPress websites. In that time, she’s helped launch more than a hundred websites, and teaches website owners how to launch their own websites and maximize their online reach.

Kate’s been a web consultant since 2005 and her ideal client has evolved along the way. Currently, she works with female business owners at a critical stage of growth. Their businesses are big enough that they need some help getting to the next level, but still want to be involved in the process. Kate specializes in partnering with these kinds of founders and business owners.

Kate focuses on personality, more than industry or revenue, to identify her ideal client. And this has given her a lot of confidence in knowing what kind of person will be an ideal fit for her business.

In this episode, we dive into how to shift your ideal client as you evolve, and what that means for existing clients. We also talk about the importance of empathy and being a good listener. Finally, we dive into how to be flexible with your ideal client.

In this episode Kate talked about:

  • Who her ideal client is and how she keeps the pulse on that segment of the market.
  • Why the decision to work for herself was such a big deal in her life, and how it put her on her current path.
  • How she used post-launch analysis of her clients to define which ones were ideal, and which ones weren’t.

Main Takeaways

  • Trial and error are a massive part of defining your ideal client. After going through enough clients, you’ll be able to pick out which clients have “red flags” and which ones will be a good fit. It may take time, but it’s the most foolproof way to understand who you want to work with.
  • Sometimes the most rewarding or impactful work may not be doing the work itself, but empowering others to do things for themselves. Work will always be available, but making a lasting change can be greatly rewarding.
  • Teaching your clients how to solve their own problems, or inviting them to be a part of the process with you, can not only save you time, but significantly deepen your relationship with your clients.

Important Mentions in this Episode

Transcript

Kate Gilbert 0:00
I realized along the way that it’s more about the personality of the site owner than it is about the industry that they’re in. A lot of times, you can tell the way a project is going to go from that very first discovery phone call before you even write the proposal.

Jason Resnick 0:29
Hey Feasters welcome to episode eight of season seven of Live In The Feast. I am Jason aka rezzz helping you grow your business by having a conversation with someone who’s been there had success built a business designed around the life that they want to live. That’s live in the feast. If this is your first time listening, hit that subscribe button so that you get notified every time a brand new episode drops. Live in the feast is in your your podcast app of choice, and if not, I’ll chase that founder down and make and put it there. If you’ve heard this show before, leave us a review in iTunes, or drop us a comment in breaker or cast box. Today’s co host is Kate Gilbert. Kate and her husband Evan were coaching clients of mine so this episode will forever hold a special place in my heart. Kate is a WordPress expert and online marketing coach, and she spent the past decade building and supporting custom built WordPress websites. In that time, she’s helped launch more than 100 websites. Kate teaches website owners how to launch their own websites and maximize their online reach over at wp master.me. She believes that everyone can have a website that shines it just takes the right know how. And consistent focus on keeping your message simple and Clear. In this episode we dive into how to shift your ideal client as you evolve and how to handle that with existing clients. We also talk about the importance to being empathetic and listening to the lives of others. And finally, we dive into how flexible you can be with your ideal client. This is such a great conversation. Here’s Kate and myself.

Hey Feasters! Welcome to another episode of living the feast. I am super excited to be talking with Kate today. Welcome, Kate.

Kate Gilbert 2:48
Hi, Jason. How are you today?

Jason Resnick 2:50
I’m doing well doing well. This is a special time for me because you and Evan. You know, we’ve worked together in a coaching capacity and And that was several years ago. And so things have transformed your, your world. And so I’m super excited to dive in a little bit here about that, you know, we work through a little bit of the ideal client scenario, obviously, you’ve taken that ball and gone completely down the field with it. This point in time, you got two businesses, which one of the businesses will definitely dive into the other one also, maybe we’ll talk a little bit more about that to, you know, code Wiz as well as your online business, helping other businesses realize the importance of their website and building all of the business ends of these things. And we’ll dive into that as well. Keep before we start out, who is your ideal client?

Kate Gilbert 3:48
Yeah, so my ideal client is a business owner who has a message and wants to get it out there to as many people as he or she can and Most of the time, my ideal client is so passionate about that, that they have a hard time sort of giving up the control and handing over their ideas to someone else. So it’s really led me to a more question and answer and guide approach to helping people set up their online presence.

Jason Resnick 4:23
So when you say that somebody is passionate has a message coming out that they want to bring out to the world in a way? How do you find that? Is it nonprofits? Is it b2b companies is consumer base, what’s the sweet spot there?

Kate Gilbert 4:39
So these days, I’m working with a lot of female business owners who started their brands themselves, maybe out of their home, but they’re growing to the point where they realize that they really have something and that there’s potential to tap into the web, both nationally and internationally. So they, they need some help getting to that next level. And they’re ready to partner with an expert in the tech things that they don’t understand. But they’re not ready to give up control. And as a web consultant, since 2005, that was one of the really toughest learning processes that I went through was how to negotiate that with the client. How to bring their vision to life on the web, while still keeping it there’s right.

Jason Resnick 5:38
So that’s awesome. I mean, the female entrepreneur, if you will, how did you? I mean, obviously, you’re a female entrepreneur. But aside from that, how did you What attracted you to that specific role, if you will, and to how do you go about finding them?

Kate Gilbert 5:56
Yeah, so as a female entrepreneur, I seek out conferences and networking events all the time where I can network with other women who are going through similar life stages as me. So we’re trying to run a business. Well, a lot of the time raising a family running a household, we tend to have a different schedule. It’s like 9am to 3pm instead of eight to five. Right, right. So as a business owner, when I really started to get aggressive about growing my brand, the women’s networking events were the ones that I found my home and but when I got there, and I started chatting with people about how I could help them on the web side, what I found was that so many of these women were so afraid of tech end up investing in development projects because they’ve been burned in the past. They hire developers or graphic designers to build them websites that didn’t come out the way they wanted. They had very, very particular ideas about how they wanted to represent their brand online, they could paint you a picture of it. But time after time, they had laid out money and not seeing that picture come to life. So I’m in these networking groups. I’m making friends, I’m chatting with women as we do. And I’m just hearing her story after her story about attempts to improve their online presence and get a better website or do more with their business online, failing and ending in frustration, as opposed to prior to that before I was a mom. I worked with a lot of clients in the health and higher ed sector. So when you can sit around a table with a research group that has funding has done this before that probably has a couple stem minded people on the team. The project is a whole different animal. So I really landed in this niche because I wanted to help my friends and build websites for the people who I was hanging out with and having lunches with. And I just really listened for a long time and what was not working for them and in the industry. Yeah,

Jason Resnick 8:30
I think that’s a good point there. But it’s a lot of listening, right? Like a lot of people want to, I don’t want to say impose, but they think about what, who they want to serve. And then they say they go seek those people out and they say, Hey, this is who I help. And this is who I serve, rather than just maybe taking it in being a little bit empathetic, hearing other people’s stories, maybe even asking you existing clients that you’re working with to say hey, look, you Know, which goes the app today, like how’s business going outside of what we’re working on? How’s business? You know, things like that. It’s something that, you know, we’re eight episodes into this season already. And I don’t think there has been one person yet that said that they didn’t just stop and listen for a little while. Mm hmm. Yeah. Before I get into a lot of the how, if you will, I always like to ask, what’s your defining moment in life so far?

Kate Gilbert 9:27
Oh, geez have to tap on my defining moment is probably when I decided to work for myself. And when I really came to terms as a early college graduate with the idea that working in a financial services role or in LA or in a typical corporate job, was never going to be right for me and was a little bit jarring because then it’s like, well, what do I do then? I can’t live at home forever. I can’t, you know, cobble together waitressing and babysitting jobs forever. I want to do something impactful. So I decided that by developing the skill of building websites, and this is over 15 years, I could contribute skill while working on my own terms. And really, that has changed everything changed my whole perspective and supporting myself and doing business with others is that my number one reason for being in this field is that I wanted to work for myself. And I would say most of my clients if I went down the list are also working for themselves. And most of the successful client relationships that I have Have the ones that go on and on through multiple iterations of a website are those people who are just like me who sort of always knew that they were independent minded and and driven by some goal inside themselves, rather than outside.

Jason Resnick 11:27
Kate has been able to make that impact that she’s looked for in life with a skill that she’s developed over the years today. And we’ll dive into this in the show. She’s helping kids learn how to code and do robotics. So cool. I wish I was nine all over again. She’s a true champion of the live life of your own design model. And I’m so excited to have known and help Kate and Evan even in such a very, very small way. feast and coaching, if you want worksheets, exercises and the ability to create that ideal client, so that you can make an impact in the world that you want to live in, also become the go to resource and build a sustainable business, head over to feast academy.com today, as a member, it is essential for me to meet you where you are, so that you are getting the exact tools so that you don’t get lost in that shuffle. The moment you sign up, we’re going to have a chat so that I could create a custom syllabus of resources within feast to meet you where you are. See, feast is the community and resource hub for developers and designers ready to get off the project searching hamster wheel and actually run the business that they set out to build. I know your business isn’t the same as everyone else’s. So that’s why feast differentiates itself. everyone out there by getting personalized guidance. If you want to stop chasing down that next project all the time, so that you could start living your life, go to feast academy.com today and use the code, golden egg at checkout and your first month is only $20.

One of the first things that I noticed of both you and your husband Evan, when we first started working together was the drive like you both had that drive to like, hey, I want the freedom and the flexibility to live life really, like I’m working. I’m working in this field so that I can then go ahead and do that. You know, I I’ve seen you guys traveled across the nation and things like that and be able to have those flexibility to do that. I mean, That’s why I do what I do as well, like, you know, like, before we started pressing record here, you heard my son. Yeah, background, right. And so, you know, to be able to do that very much like you like I knew that sitting in a cube or at somebody else’s desk wasn’t really meant for me. It was just one of those things. And I was just like, Okay, well, how do I then go ahead and make a life for myself, but be able to support it, like, support my family and the goals and all that other stuff? And thank God for the internet, right? I don’t know what I would do. If the internet wasn’t here, so cool. So the ideal client that you have the woman entrepreneur, the like minded woman entrepreneur that, you know, really strives for, that’s driven that strives for what she wants. How did you unpack that? How did you call about the actual I hate to use the word but like, avatar, right? Like, we’ve all heard those customer avatars and the demographics of like a, you know, likes to shop at this store drives this car, you know, has two kids like in the services world that doesn’t necessarily line up all that much like, although it sounds like in your space, at least you found that they are family, they do have a family, maybe young kids, there’s a certain time window of any given day that they have available to them. But outside of that, how did you develop the ideal client?

Kate Gilbert 15:34
Yeah. So really through trial and error and analyzing after every launch site? Was that a good match? Or is that somebody that maybe I won’t be working with again, and it’s not a personal thing. I mean, I used to say, I don’t have a niche. My niche is WordPress, if you need a WordPress website, I’m all ears. I don’t care if you’re going to sell tires or hot tubs. But I realized along the way that it’s more about the personality of the site owner than it is about the industry that they’re in. So the personality that works best for me is the site owner who has a very defined vision, who wants to be involved in the execution, who can sit across the table with me and really pick apart the project and get into the creative process, roll up her sleeves and do some work with it. The projects where a administrative assistant is tasked with coordinating the website. Those might say on timeline stay on budget. All of the little check boxes are checked at the end. But most of the time The site owner is not going to feel like the finished product has their vision because they weren’t a part of the process. So more than evaluating a prospects revenue or industry or where they spend their vacations, I’m evaluating how comfortable it is for us to have that first prospect call. How difficult it was for the call to be scheduled. If the person is receptive to suggestions, if they come with their own suggestions, a lot of times, you can tell the way a project is going to go from that very first discovery phone call before you even write the proposal. So trial and error I’ve learned to see the red flags and to see the golden eggs

Jason Resnick 17:53
like that. Yeah.

Kate Gilbert 17:55
And and a client who says, I don’t know you’re the designer. Are you tell me what looks good. My have both of us, you know, wringing our hands, but six weeks in when we just can’t come to something that we both think looks good.

Jason Resnick 18:12
That’s awesome. I mean, we’ve had a couple of people on the show talk about like, it’s easier to find out who you don’t want to work with then who you do want to work with. And once you know who you don’t want to work with, and you can identify those characteristics, then it’s easy to spot them and then you say, Okay, this is not somebody that I want to work with. And then you kind of put that filter up there right like the counter catch them. It’s awesome. I love that like the red flags and the goal today. I like that. Yeah. I guess a question that I do have is okay, so you then this this is only coming from me like who I am, because I am a work from home died. I take half you know, several hours a day in the middle of The day and watch the kids when my wife goes and works. She she does her thing. So I’m curious to know like, do you have any men clients? Or is it just women? Because you can connect on that level?

Kate Gilbert 19:13
I do have plenty of male clients. Okay, and it works out just fine. I have identified my ideal client as a woman because my number one best customer is a woman and I believe in you know, modeling that off the single most viable customer. Absolutely. But certainly we don’t discriminate and the in person workshops that I’m running at our brick and mortar business in downtown Jersey City have much more Cohen brand feel to them.

Jason Resnick 19:51
Okay, so you brought that up, and I’m definitely interested to know, can you describe what your brick and mortar businesses

Kate Gilbert 19:58
Yep. So it’s totally different than my web development WP master May, after building a web agency for over a decade, my husband and I had two kids and Massachusetts. And he didn’t like his corporate job was really feeling unfulfilled in it and we were far away from family. So we looked for a business to buy that would let us come back to the New York area. And we selected code was, which is an after school kids coding and robotics center. Kids come to us from four to 8pm in the evening, to learn Lego robotics, drag and drop coding, 3d printing all the way up through Java and Python. We run camps. We have Saturday hours, birthday parties, parents night out, you name it, and I’m focused right now. bringing my web support business for adults into this new storefront location that we have, and finding ways for that ideal client, website owner who wants to get our hands dirty to actually come and sit across from the table at me from me at code was and build the site and the web solutions and collaboration there.

Jason Resnick 21:26
That’s awesome. Yes. Well, I wish there was code was when I was nine years old, because Forget it. Yeah, that sounds awesome. Right? Like all this, all this geeks that love that. So with that, the melding, if you will, of the online business that you’ve built over the past decade, and then the brick and mortar business trying to bring, like, I guess a local flair, right, like, I mean, I don’t know what the plans are, but like, obviously, targeting that local space right now to bring in those entrepreneurs in there. Yep, what’s different with that? What has shifted? Or what has changed in your idea of client? If anything?

Kate Gilbert 22:07
Yeah, well, what’s really changed is my approach to what my work brings to people. So I used to think of it as I deliver websites, solutions, code and whatnot that brings marketing initiatives online. But now that code was in the mix. What it really boils down to is breaking down the barriers to tech and helping to translate the terms and code and what is hosting what is the domain name. Take those things all off of the pedestal and bring them down to regular conversational level and help more people understand them. Whether those people are elementary and middle school age kids or business owners because you look around you like by the time these kids have kindergarten, they’re on the same electronic ecosphere.

Jason Resnick 23:04
So I got my own little theories on all of that I’m sure that the kids are actually more receptive to the learning than the adults, right?

Kate Gilbert 23:12
Yeah. Well, the kids aren’t as afraid of it. It’s sort of like, think about swim lessons. If you take your six month old to swim lessons at the Y, and you hold them against you, and you cuddle them, and you tiptoe into the water, and you’re there to cuddle them when they cry. They’re going to take to it a lot better than imagine you have a grown adult who never learn to swim. And he’s standing on that same pool deck. Somebody he tells him to get in the water who’s gonna hold him when he cries because it’s freezing cold? Nobody, right? So there’s a lot more fear as we age, the kids are ready to just come at it and they’re not embarrassed when they have questions or when they stumble. And so what Evan and I are trying to do with our adult programming is make it as fun and as interactive so that the adults who want to learn these things can feel comfortable to jump right in there.

Jason Resnick 24:13
I love that. Because just the other day I was at my mom’s house, and she’s asking my nephew who’s 10 how to put her Bluetooth speaker on her phone. So it’s just, it’s like, it’s it’s funny, because I used to get those questions now. I’m glad that he’s old enough. But, yeah, it’s, I mean, that’s awesome. So how has it been working in a live environment? Or, you know, like you said, sitting across the table, rather than like, on a Skype call or zoom call or over email, like, how has that changed? Or shifted, maybe even just communication?

Kate Gilbert 24:48
Um, yeah, so it’s a lot easier to get to the right image or to the right phrase when you’re in the same room as the person because there’s an energy When I pull up a stock photo on a zoom call, test my client if she likes it or her background, I can’t see the way she wiggles her shoulder or if she leans in and smile so little bit. When you’re in the same room as somebody, the energy is right there, whether the idea is working or not. And you don’t need to dwell on it. It’s like yes, or now move on to the next thing. And then in the small group workshops and classes that we run, you also get the added benefit of community. I’m going to be teaching a series of WordPress workshops in the code was location. And I’m going to be creating a private Facebook group so that the site owners as they work on their homework in between the weekly seminars can share their outcomes and ask questions of each other because one You get in there? I mean, all the answers are on the internet. Right? So it’s really the hard part about bringing all this together online is knowing how to write, ask the right questions. And the more people you have in the room, the more questions get asked.

Jason Resnick 26:18
Yeah, I think I mean, it’s all how you crafting all of these interactions and these, how you’re working in your businesses is very similar. I’m hearing a lot of the same sort of listening, you know, you’re noticing you’re being perceptive of certain things. Like whether that’s an online call with somebody and you’re seeing how receptive they are to suggestions or how they interact with you. If they’re throwing their hands up and saying, Hey, I don’t know you’re the designer, versus in person area. We noticed somebody just slightly lean in a little bit. Maybe their shoulders go up or an excitement on their shoulders. Just Go down and disappointment or something like that those small little body cues. You’re right you don’t get those online. It’s one of the things that I sort of miss about the in person meetings because I don’t have I rarely do with any of my clients. But what I kind of miss is finding out what is important right away like just looking around their office, let’s say they have old family photos, well, their families important if they have all awards professionally driven awards, well, then you know what that’s and it’s just those little nuance Yeah, like being perceptive about that stuff. So that’s awesome.

Kate Gilbert 27:35
I find it also helps for the client to work to see how I set up the page to work with me, whether it’s in a zoom screen share, or we’re sitting side by side, when they see how their events calendar is built. And all of the options that I select in the setup the number of emails after lunch about can we add this? Can we tweak that goes down tremendously, not because they’re less picky. But simply because as humans, when we understand something, we feel more comfortable with it. So if all of the things that go into your business website are just shuttled back and forth in the form of text, emails and attachments, what kind of feelings going to come to life on that website?

Jason Resnick 28:32
Like that? So how have you then transitioned some of the things that you’re learning just even in the in person engagements back online, so that like you saying now, like, just emails back and forth, how have you sort of shifted the game over there?

Kate Gilbert 28:48
Yeah. So one of the tactics that I found tremendously helpful is to answer my clients questions with videos sometimes, because I know that if I show them how to Do it, it’s going to be a lot more effective than me telling them how to do it. If it’s something complex, that is going to require a video longer than like 60 seconds, then I invite them to schedule a call with me. I used to be very protective of phone calls, because I had the mindset that I can’t work when I’m talking to you, you know, I can only work like when my hands are on the keyboard. But now I welcome phone calls like even for some of my clients, because those are the times that the decisions get made. And if I can pin them down and have them select the headshot in real time, then that’s done and we don’t need to belabor it anymore.

Jason Resnick 29:49
Yeah, I like the video. I’ve used a tool called Lou

Kate Gilbert 29:52
Yeah, I used to Yeah, and

Jason Resnick 29:54
it’s super helpful. I mean, I’ve gotten great responses being like this is so much better than If you wrote me out, like 14 paragraphs on how to do this thing, because now I could see it, and I could replay it, and I can, yeah, I could walk people through it in that way.

Kate Gilbert 30:09
And when I do the longer office hours calls, I offer one into our office hours, I always record them via zoom. So the client can keep it can refer back to it in the future, when she wants to change that page or add a new event, whatever it was, we went over his hurts to keep an mp4 format.

Jason Resnick 30:32
Nice. So obviously that then that translates into I mean, it. We’re sort of inferring here, but we haven’t really said the word yet. But you’ve built a business that is a recurring model, these websites get launched and then you also then manage it and take care of it and make sure everything’s working and do changes on that on the back of that correct.

Kate Gilbert 30:52
I’m actually I don’t do that anymore. Okay. I used to host and maintain most of the sites. I After lunch, and when I opened code was and added this education component into my life, something had to go. So now after site launches, I refer the client to a hosting and maintenance company called Word keeper. And they will update all the plugins, upkeep the software today, and do server side support items, help with redirects, help with PHP version upgrades, backups, they manage the backups, the restores, etc. So that I can know that this beautiful site that I’ve helped this person build is going to be hosted on the server that does it justice, but I don’t have to manage all of the little things. And then I’m welcoming the clients to come back when they want to make a bigger change. If they want to learn how to do more with certain parts of their site, I’ll help them with the front end things. And the hosting company helps with the back end things.

Jason Resnick 32:11
Gotcha. So the office hours that you offer to your clients, what’s that relationship?

Kate Gilbert 32:17
So it’s an as needed hourly rate. If you look on my website WP master May, there’s a number of different topics that I can help people with. But basically, you come with a problem. For example, you have a plugin on your WordPress site that shows related posts in the sidebar, and it’s been there forever. But now it’s stopped working and the guy who installed it years ago is no longer reachable prime example. So that person might go on my site. Schedule a one hour mini call, will meet in zoom at the time of the call and will fit That is shared together, whether that means editing the plugin file, or more commonly, throwing out that old plugin and replacing the function with, ideally something that doesn’t come from a plugin. And it’s a one time thing. They don’t have any ongoing contract with me. But what they do gain is I then have familiarity with their site. And they have a contact to put in their CRM to call upon when the next plugin breaks, or the host company sends an email they don’t understand.

Jason Resnick 33:38
Yeah, like that. So before we wrap up here, what’s next in the next 612 months,

Kate Gilbert 33:45
more teaching? I’m really looking for a way to bring the workshops that I’m running in person in Jersey City, online, and to have people be able to participate in them from their home. From their communities and interactive way, as if they’re sitting in the classroom. So that’s what I’m focusing on right now is developing a curriculum that will deliver the DIY skills that a person who wants to do their own marketing needs and delivering it in a way that doesn’t require a tech assistant to attend the class and to take advantage of

Jason Resnick 34:27
Yeah, like that. any headway on that is any like, if somebody is listening to this that obviously isn’t in Jersey City, but it definitely resonates with them and everything else is there anything that they can go ahead then and get on a waitlist or sign up to that somebody can do?

Kate Gilbert 34:45
Yeah, so I’m already publishing tons of tips and many videos, tutorials and blog posts on my site at WP master may and if you join my list at WP master dot me slash get your guide, you’ll get a free downloadable PDF of the top things to worry about when caring for your own website. And you’ll also be the first to know when I have online workshops on the calendar.

Jason Resnick 35:18
Yeah, we’ll definitely throw all of those links in the show notes for sure. Awesome. Definitely go ahead and click over into the show notes and click over into kids opt in there. This has been awesome, Kate, love hearing the story and how, first of all I want to code with here in Oceanside, New York. So I’m not sure how to make that happen. Don’t be so sweet. Because I think especially my oldest son, he’s only three but he’s definitely stem minded. He’s definitely of the engineering ilk, if you will, and he’s always he’s always exploring all of those sort of things. We have all my wife has done an amazing job of building These like, stem, like engineered projects, their projects there, but just things like, you know, like different beakers and water and colors. There’s other things with like rice and beans and all of these other things that it’s just like these home built things and it’s just wonderful to watch him explore and like see, just learn, because what he’s really learning there is like some of these things is physics.

Kate Gilbert 36:27
Yeah. And how to be curious and yeah,

Jason Resnick 36:29
I’m like, this is gonna be a big mess. Yeah. It is, you know, is adopting it. So,

Kate Gilbert 36:35
yeah, we teach some preschool coding craft classes where kids work with like big chunky beads and make name bracelets or patterns or perler beads and when you get to ages four and five looking to any kind of forming of a sequence or pattern.

Jason Resnick 36:54
Yeah, he does that all the time. Yeah, the lineup things and color coded patterns. letters like everything. It’s sneakers are like our shoe rack is just all in patterns. It’s funny, but it’s fun to watch. This has been awesome, Kate, where can folks reach out and say thanks?

Kate Gilbert 37:12
Yeah, so you can reach me by email at Kate at wp master.me or look me up under that handle on Instagram and Facebook. Awesome. I will link up all of those in the show notes as well. Kate, thanks for sharing some time and wisdom with us here today. Thanks, Jason. It was great to catch up with you.

Jason Resnick 37:31
Yeah, absolutely. And for everyone listening until next time to have time to live in the feast.

If you enjoyed today’s episode, I could speak for both Kate myself by saying that we’d love to hear the one takeaway that you got from this episode. It’s super simple. This podcast at, go ahead and drop in a comment or review, whichever one applies. Or go ahead and share it in a tweet and tag me at Ray’s on Twitter that one takeaway, I’ll be happy to share it with Kate. Don’t forget to hit that subscribe button so that you’ll be the first to listen in next week when we will be back with Emily leech. Emily founded and runs a conference called free con. We’re going to talk all things ideal client for freelancers and why she’s built a conference around it. Until then, it’s your time to live in the feast.