Today's co-host is Kaleigh Moore. Kaleigh is a freelance writer who specializes in blog content for e-commerce platforms, and the software that integrates with them. She's also written for Forbes, Ad Week, and Glossy. Kaleigh also co-hosts the Creative Class podcast, and helps run the Creative Class online course with Paul Jarvis, a former co-host of Live In The Feast S03 E04. Definitely give that a listen.
Kaleigh started writing copy as a freelancer about six years ago, and her clients and business have evolved quite a bit since then. As her interests and opportunities shifted, she allowed her business to shift with them. She's also worked to niche down her business so that she focuses on creating blog content rather than being a generic copywriter.
In 2013, Kaleigh was working as a PR manager for a non-profit and wanted more flexibility in her schedule (and commute!). She gave herself an 18-month window to try out freelancing. If it didn't work within that time, she committed to going back to work. That was a huge moment for Kaleigh, and has defined her life and career.
In this episode, we talk about Kaleigh's business and how her ideal client has evolved over time. We also talk about how to be selective and figure out who you want to work with, and why exit interviews are so important.
[Tweet "'It took me a long time to figure out the clients I should pass on. It's always a little bit difficult to figure out who's going to be the best fit for your work style and your personality. So, it was a lot of trial and error for me.' @kaleighf"]
In this episode Kaleigh talked about:
- Who her ideal client is and how she got into that segment of the market.
- How she stays ahead of the industry and tweaks her business model to get in front of new audiences.
- Why she conducts exit interviews and how it's changed her business.
- Be mindful of the fact that things are often changing and evolving. It's your responsibility to evolve with your industry and to stay relevant to the people you're working for. It helps if you follow your own interests and use that to expand your offerings and audience.
- Finding who you want to work with can be a lot of trial and error. Interest and expertise should drive these decisions.
- Exit surveys or interviews are invaluable in figuring out what to offer your clients moving forward, and sometimes allows you to expand your services in surprising and delightful ways for your clients.
Important Mentions in this Episode
Kaleigh Moore 0:00
What I really quickly discovered was that the more I said no to things that weren’t a good fit and only said yes to the things that were number one, I started enjoying the work a lot more. So I didn’t have this feeling of resentment of like, I don’t really care about this subject. I don’t want to do this, but I need the money. It also made me a great person for giving referrals to other freelancers. I would give the project to them, and then they would return the favor to me for things that were a good fit for me. So the benefits very much outweighed saying no to the opportunities.
Jason Resnick 0:43
Welcome to Episode Five of season seven of living the feast. I’m Jason aka rezzz helping you grow your business by having a conversation with someone who’s been there had success and build the business designed around the life they want to live. That’s live in the feast. If this is your first time listening, hit that subscribe button so that you get notified every time a new episode drops live in the feast is in your podcast app of choice. And if it’s not, let me know. I’d be happy to get it there. If you’ve heard the show before, leave us a review on iTunes or drop us a comment in breaker or cast box. Today’s co host is Kaleigh Moore. Kaleigh is a freelance writer who specializes in blog content for e commerce platforms and the software that integrates with them. She has also written for Forbes ad week and glossy. She also co hosts a podcast and helps run an online course called creative class with Paul Jarvis, a former co host of the show, back in season three episode four, definitely go grab a listen to that we talked about his story there. In this episode, however, we dive into the word today and how caelis interest change over time as those her ideal client, but then how she handles that with existing clients. We also talk about how to be selective and figure out who you want to work with, and what questions to ask your client as an exit interview. This is an outstanding episode. So here’s Kaleigh.
Hey facers Welcome to another episode of live in the feast. I am super excited to be talking with Kaleigh. More here. Kaleigh, welcome.
Kaleigh Moore 2:47
Thank you for having me. I’m excited to talk to
Jason Resnick 2:50
Well, it’s my pleasure. And I know that you know, I’ve been following you for quite some time on Twitter and you know, with Paul and everything that you do over there. Well with him, and I know that you have an ideal client, you’ve found a niche, a specialty, if you will. And I’d love to hear a little bit more about your journey there. But before we dive into that, who is your ideal client?
Kaleigh Moore 3:14
Yeah, so today, my ideal client, our e commerce platforms, so that think of like Shopify, or Etsy or big commerce, and then the software tools that integrate with those platforms, so that make e commerce selling a little bit easier. So that would be things like email marketing software, or CRM, or like an upselling tool. So it’s pretty specialized. It’s pretty specific to kind of the e commerce and software as a service world. And I just, we’ll get into how I got there. I just kind of fell into that world, but it’s a great place to be and it’s it’s still growing a lot. And so the people that I work with our like, marketers, editors, content managers at those types of companies. That’s so that’s my idea. client.
Jason Resnick 4:01
Gotcha. So one thing I want to mention there is you started that off by today. Can you elaborate why today?
Kaleigh Moore 4:08
So for me, I feel like my freelance writing business has evolved quite a bit over the past six years since I’ve been doing this full time. In the early days, I was doing something very different. So I just try to be mindful of the fact that things are often changing and evolving. And it’s kind of my responsibility, responsibility, I feel like to evolve with it, and to always be relevant to people that I’m writing for, but also to kind of get out in front of where my interest lies. So if my interest change over time, what can I do to tweak my business model a little bit and maybe get in front of a new audience of people. So an example of that would be this past year, I’ve really focused on retail businesses and direct to consumer commerce. And so I’ve started writing for Forbes about that. And so, again, like that was just something I was interested in. It kind of relates to the e commerce world. A lot of those those people do have e commerce presence. Is I guess, but it’s it’s an evolution. Again, it’s another slight shift in my business model.
Jason Resnick 5:06
Absolutely. Yeah. And I think that’s a good point that you say like it evolves over time. Because the same thing for me was, I’m an e commerce developer. That’s what I started doing. I flocked towards e commerce as a developer, when most developers run away from e commerce. And I just love the solving problems in that space. And it sort of evolved over the years now where I focused solely on ConvertKit and drip integrating with WooCommerce. And so so that’s my platform of choice, but it’s evolved in that way to just include those platforms. Whereas before I was working on magenta websites, I was working on custom Ruby on Rails and integrating all of the other platforms out there and it became money, like I wasn’t really focused there. And so you said something in that intro, there about the Who the position the person within those companies? Can you elaborate a little bit more on? Why that specific role in that company is your client?
Kaleigh Moore 6:10
Yeah, so for me, it’s a little bit focus, because I’m doing mostly blog content creation. That’s kind of where I do my best work and where I’ve niche down to focus my efforts rather than white papers or website copy, things like that. I really focus on research and writing long form blog content. So the people that I end up working with most often are folks within that marketing department who either have the title of like editor or content manager or head of marketing, and they are overseeing a larger execution of a lot of different strategies and blog content is one of those pieces. So I think that was important for me to kind of know and understand is like, Who am I talking to when I’m creating my website or when I’m, you know, pitching myself to a client and what are what is that specific person’s needs? What do I need to do to make their life lives easier. So by knowing that I’ve been able to really cater to that that person that I know is going to be the one making the hiring decision.
Jason Resnick 7:08
Gotcha. Yeah, that’s super smart. Because it’s easy to know, right up front, my talking to the right person or I might not. So before we dive into a little bit about how you came about your ideal client, I like to ask everyone, what is your defining moment in life so far?
Kaleigh Moore 7:27
Oh, that’s a big question.
Jason Resnick 7:29
It is a big question.
Kaleigh Moore 7:30
My defining moment. Oh my gosh, I have to think about that. I guess I haven’t had one if it’s not right at the top of my mind, right. Well, give me an example like what have other people say because now I feel like I’m scrambling and I don’t want to stupid
Jason Resnick 7:46
now there’s nothing stupid about it. It’s just it’s some people say you know that it was their partner marrying their partner is having a child, other people that are giving a professional milestone that they hit Leaving the nine to five, they’re going to, you know, building their own business and things of that nature. It’s always, I mean, we’ve had near death experiences, you know, some some basically just some defining moment in their life that the reason why I asked this question is because it’s funny how sometimes when I have these conversations is that when I asked that question, and then I hear their story, there is usually some symbiotic relationship between that defining moment and their story. I see they’re describing to you here on the podcast, and for me, and the audience. It’s it’s always interesting because you don’t really think about it. And it could be a personal, you know, defining moment. But we’re talking all about business here. And so how that interweaves with everything is fascinating to me.
Kaleigh Moore 8:51
I see. Okay, well, that makes that makes sense. That gives me a little bit of background, something to work with there. So I would say definitely for me a big difference. Finding moment was also leaving my nine to five job. So before I started freelancing, I was working full time as the PR manager for a nonprofit in Illinois was my first job out of college. It’s a great job. I love the people there. I love the work that they do. I was looking for something a little bit more challenging, I think I wanted and I wanted more flexibility to I was commuting about 45 minutes each way to work. And there was a lot of nights and weekend events and I just I wanted to be on my own schedule. So I started looking for a way to do that. And freelancing was was one of the kind of pass away from this tour, I’d have that freedom and flexibility. So I gave myself an 18 month window in 2013 and said, I’m going to give this a try to quit my job. It doesn’t work out. I’ll go back and find another one. But that was six years ago. So it all worked out. But that was it. That was a big leap for me. I mean, I was very young. I was still just a few years out of college and to leave that job security and all those wonderful things like vacations. Time and health benefits. That was scary. I was hard.
Jason Resnick 10:04
Yeah, absolutely. I just have to ask a follow up to that is, did you have a client roster before you did the leap? Or was it? I did. Okay,
Kaleigh Moore 10:13
I did. Yeah. So I started freelancing on the side for about six months before I made the transition into full time freelancing. And I really just had a couple clients who had me on a contractual basis to where we had a year contract lined up. So with those, I felt like I had a little bit of stability to where the transition was a little bit less scary. So that made my jump a little bit safer, I guess.
Jason Resnick 10:37
Right, right. My training wheels. Exactly. Yeah. I always admire the people that just do that jump and there’s like, there’s no mattress to save them or nothing. They’re just like, All right, I’ll quit. I’m done. Yeah, I wasn’t me. It was I was very much like you like I had to have something to fall back on at least. So the ideal client when you set Hold on your ideal client. How did that happen? Did it just like say, Hey, I like these people? Or was there an actual strategy or process that you went through?
Kaleigh Moore 11:09
I think there were a lot of factors, I think. So in the early days of my business, I just said yes to everything. And I worked with basically anyone who came my way. But over time I, I took the creative class of Paul Jarvis, which I’m a co teacher of now. But I took that course in 2014. And that really encouraged me to shift my focus to a specific niche. And so I decided to do that and to give it a try. And I had a couple of clients that were in the software world, and I liked working with them. I liked the subject matter. I liked the people that I was working with. And so I just kind of decided to lean into that to see where it went. And that was a fortunate choice, because software has really taken off over the past decade. And so that’s been a really profitable place to be. So I think that there was definitely some luck involved with that choice. I think it was a Also just I don’t know, like being being in the right communities, being in the right places, talking to people working hard to make friends and connections with people in that world really helps generate some referrals and kind of submit my place to where I felt like, I don’t know, I was part of a community where people knew who I was and what I do. And so that made my services I guess, a little bit stickier it made it. People were like, Oh, that’s Kelly. She works with software. Like I’ve seen her on Twitter, or I’ve seen her on x person’s blog, like it helped build a little bit of authority in subject matter expertise within that world.
Jason Resnick 12:35
So I guess one thing that I had found was the idea of client, while industry specific or platform specific, like we’ve spoken about is one element to it one factor to it, but it’s also there’s a personality side of things, right, like as business owners ourselves, and freelancers. We, you know, they’re hiring us for us and I’d like they could go somebody else. Yet they decided to choose us. And its reciprocal to right like we could choose just because we got a bad vibe from somebody as they came in as a lead like, okay, maybe I should just pass on this person or this business or this project. Did that play a role in your thinking?
Kaleigh Moore 13:16
I think it took me a long time to figure out who are the clients I should pass on? I think it’s, it’s always a little bit difficult to figure out who’s going to be the best fit for your work style and your personality. So it was a lot of trial and error for me. I think a lot of it has been driven also by interest. So what am I interested in at the time? What am I not easily going to get burned out on writing about day in and day out? Where do I feel confident enough to where I’m not like researching and learning from scratch every time I get a new assignment? So yeah, there were a lot of factors that went into figuring out who are the good fits for me and who maybe would be better Sarah working with someone else?
Jason Resnick 13:56
Yeah, the burnout thing is a little bit But they don’t want to wake up each and every day and be like, I don’t really want to work on that for sure.
If you heard what Kelly said here, she’s become the subject matter expert in the field she’s chosen. She’s a bit modest here as well, at least in my opinion, where she says that it was a bit of luck. But if you hear how she’s network and been a part of that community, she’s built a referral network and become known as the go to person. So just who Kaleigh is by injecting herself in her own personality, she’s become that go to person. Word of mouth is probably your number one source of leads into your business. But I’d be willing to bet that you are leaving that up to chance, right? Well, if you want worksheets and exercises and the ability to create that ideal client and a referral machine to build predictability in your leads coming into your business Head over to feast academy.com today, as a member, you get the processes and templates to not only figure out who your ideal client is, and the services that you can provide for them. You also learn how to figure out how to put a price on those services that makes it a complete no brainer for the client. That’s why I want to invite you to check out feast. By using the code red flag you can get your first month for only $20 feast is the community and resource hub for developers and designers ready to get off the project searching hamster wheel and actually run the business that they set out to build these helps position you in the market with what you do, who you help and helps you build the processes and systems for everything you need to build a sustainable business. Your business isn’t the same as everyone else’s. And this is the differentiator of feast than all other online courses out there. When you are a member of fees, you get personalized guidance for myself. It is essential for me to meet you where you are. And make sure that you are getting the exact tools so that you don’t get lost in the shuffle. The moment you sign up, we’re going to have a chat, so that I can create a custom syllabus of resources within fees to meet you where you are. If you want to stop chasing down that next project, so that you can start living your life, go to feast academy.com today and use the code red flag at checkout and your first month is only $20.
So have you done any sort of those exercises, those customer avatar exercises, I mean, probably for your clients in some small way, as you’re engaged with them on a project potentially but for your own business, have you? Have you sort of gone through any of those exercises or empathy maps maybe or any of that sort of thing?
Kaleigh Moore 17:09
No, you know, I haven’t really done anything that technical with that kind of framework built in. I think a lot of it is for me more just asking for regular feedback and being really strategic about the questions I asked. So it’s that but a little bit more ambiguous, I guess, and less strategic. So anytime I end a project, I have an exit survey that I send to the client, how did things go? What can improve? What did you like, next time, like what are the things I can do that would make this run more smoothly? So I’m getting those same pieces of information. I’m just kind of collecting all these data points from all these different people I work with and then keeping those in mind for future projects as well. So it teaches me how to be a better Freelancer and how to better serve these people that I work with. Just by asking these questions on a regular basis. It teaches me new things That I would you know, I can learn them any other way other than ask them like, hey, what can I do to make this better? And they’re the perfect sources of feedback because they’re the exact type of person I want to hire me in the future as well. So that’s been really invaluable.
Jason Resnick 18:13
Right? Yeah. Love it. Love it. It’s sort of an exit interview, if you will. Like you said, What have you found most interesting about the answers that you get from those questions?
Kaleigh Moore 18:24
I love when I get a piece of feedback about what things I can do to make life easier. I’ve really discovered some interesting things there that I never would have thought of. But they’re usually along the lines of like, Oh, we could really use a snippet for the meta description included with the blog post. So very specific, things like that, but just little bits and pieces that if I can add those in, it’s a huge value add for them because it simplifies their work process, it makes their job easier. Another one that’s been really popular is having a network of sources to get original quotes from for the pieces that I write Being able to leverage that network of connections, and then tie that into the pieces that I create is another great form of extra value that I can deliver it. And again, like that was off of a piece of feedback from a client. They were like, hey, we’d really love it if you would do this. And so I was like, Oh, of course, no problem. And so I started talking that up with other clients as well, and in a couple instances, was actually able to charge a little bit more by adding that in kind of an add on.
Jason Resnick 19:27
Yeah, it’s funny when you ask a question, and they say something that’s like, I don’t know why I wasn’t doing that. But Right, right. Then it’s simple things like, you know, I work on retainer, and my clients at that time, all I did was I just gave them weekly emails at the end of the week, basically updating on them on things that I worked on, where we’re at in the project, and then what’s up next, and so, I just opened the door and had a 10 minute conversation with a bunch of my clients. I do that on a regular basis, but this time it was how can I be more Awesome. And that’s my phrase for what can I do better? Yeah. And so what I heard was, you know, we’d love it. If there was a phone call more often, like weekend, you know, you’re available and everything and not saying that, that that’s the case. But if we could just have a regularly scheduled phone call with the updates, like the emails are good, but the phone call, I’m like, okay, I can schedule a weekly call this at work. And I would just charge more for that, because that’s just taking me away from your work, and that’s fine. But if you’re willing to pay for that added feature, I’ll do that. And so I did in wasn’t adding anything to my skill set or anything. It was just creating a calendar invite. And I would have never thought about that.
Kaleigh Moore 20:43
Yeah, that’s so good.
Jason Resnick 20:44
And it’s just really intriguing. I love that you asked those questions. So how has crafting or figuring out who your ideal client is how is that evolved your business?
Kaleigh Moore 20:57
I think it is allowed me to Really positioned myself as a subject matter expert for very specific client. and the value in that is that I am seen as a professional who can charge more because there’s more value in like a really strong subject matter expertise, rather than just like, oh, we’re just looking for a writer who can get this done. Like we don’t care who it is, we just want cheap, we just want done. So I have, it’s allowed me to position myself as a fairly expensive service provider, but one that can do a really good job that has a really good record of delivering results, meaningful results for the client, and that has a process in place. So again, like it makes their life super easy. They basically just have to complete a couple steps and then hand the project off to me and then I do it and it’s done for them.
Jason Resnick 21:47
I think that that’s a key point here, right? So you became like the expert because you’ve honed in on this ideal client which then allows you to charge premium prices, but it also makes you Like you said referral to people are aware of what you do. And if there is a need that they have, or somebody that they know has, they can say, hey, Kaleigh does this stuff. Go talk to her. I know she’ll help you. How did you feel when you started to say, Hey, I do need to make this shift, if you will, like I do need to specialize or figure out who my ideal client is. Was there any fear that you were like closing the door on opportunities that could be lucrative, profitable, or maybe just accelerate your career?
Kaleigh Moore 22:33
Oh, for sure. Definitely. And I have all the freelancers I talked to when we talk about choosing a niche and getting really specific about who you work for and what you do. That’s the same thing that comes up every time people are like, No, I don’t want to say no to money. Like, I want the jobs that are coming my way. And I I totally get it and I’ve been there but what I really quickly discovered was that the more I said no to things that weren’t a good fit, and only said yes to the things that were a couple Things happen like number one, I started enjoying the work a lot more. So I didn’t have this feeling of resentment of like, I don’t really care about this subject. I don’t want to do this, but I need the money. So eliminated some of that. It also made me a great person for giving referrals out to other freelancers who if a project came my way, and it wasn’t a good fit, but I knew someone that would work for I would give the project to them, and then they would return the favor to me for things that were a good fit for me. So I think that it had a couple of benefits that very much outweighed saying no to the opportunities and kind of the missed revenue from those.
Jason Resnick 23:37
Do you ever to this day, deviate?
Kaleigh Moore 23:41
A pretty rarely there? There are a few clients that kind of fall out side of my industry, but I think are very interesting, interesting, and that I’m really like, I’m very passionate about the company. So if they were to come to me, I’d probably say yes, just because I like what they’re doing. I like the process. And all those things, but for the most part day to day, I keep pretty strict boundaries around who’s a good fit and who’s not.
Jason Resnick 24:08
Right. But because you are saying no, it gives you that freedom and flexibility to choose those interests, right. And passionate projects. Yeah, I find myself too sometimes like, Oh, you know, it’d be a cool project to work on. It’s totally out of left field, but it should or you know, it’s just, it’s a local project. So it’s like my community, or you know, something of that nature. And I’m like, yeah, I’ll pick that up. I’ll see what I can do.
Kaleigh Moore 24:35
But that’s the beauty of freelancing, right? It’s like you get to call those shots. There’s no boss to tell you. No, you can’t do that. I love that.
Jason Resnick 24:42
Yeah, absolutely. And that’s the thing. You don’t have somebody else saying, like, you’re actually seeing the opportunity. If you have a boss, you would never even see that opportunity. Be like, Okay, all right, next, you know, next on a sheet. So yeah, I love that. One of the things I guess back on the emotional side or the fear factor side, if you will, of deciding to go down that ideal client, you mentioned something about taking on things that are of interest to you at the time and being able to maybe shift and choose of those things. When you do shift a little bit on the interest, and you have those existing clients that are, let’s say, not of the new sort of way or new direction where you’re looking, how do you handle that shift with the older clients?
Kaleigh Moore 25:36
It really it’s kind of a case by case basis, if they’re a good client who has no problem paying me on time and that I can easily continue to do the work for I’ll just kind of grandfathered them in and then moving forward, I’ll be more selective with the things that I say yes to. But the beauty of the kind of work that I do is that it really kind of fluctuates from month to month and so I might Work with one client for three months in a row, and then they take a quarter off, and then they come back again. So that kind of variability is kind of stressful sometimes on the revenue side of things, I’ve been really fortunate to have a really healthy business so far. But that flexibility also lends itself to having that shift and interest in being able to shift my focus a little bit and be fairly agile with like, here’s what I want to focus on this month or this quarter. So I would say I don’t shift my interest very often. It’s kind of a slow, gradual progression into a new area when it does happen. But I just kind of I just tweak things a little bit and I focus on if there’s something that’s really really keeping me busy, and I know that I need to shift my focus or rate increases, always an easy way to weed people out. Sure. So that’s that’s kind of the fallback if everything else fails, but yeah, it’s just kind of a slow progression.
Jason Resnick 26:58
Gotcha. Yeah, yeah. It goes back to that fear factor, your brain increased. They’re like, Oh, Melissa, good client that pays me on time. They just don’t want to pay me that new rate. Right, right. Yeah. It’s funny how a rate increase weeds out people.
Kaleigh Moore 27:13
It really does.
Jason Resnick 27:15
But no, I mean it to your point though, I think Yeah. And I’ve shifted gears a few times just in the realm of what the client is asking for. Right. So in the very beginning, I, I was very much like you just taking any job that would come my way because they were willing to pay me for it. And I was working on Ruby on Rails projects and custom PHP projects in Java, and all the rest of these sort of projects. But what I found was that the clients that I was having, they weren’t necessarily like they weren’t amazon. com, so their whole team wasn’t in the website every single day all day long. Maybe once a day, they would pop in or every other day they were pop in. And so what I found was that they were constantly Having this need to read, learn how to do certain things that they hadn’t done, let’s say in a month, like, um, we have to update a product or upload a new product. How do we do this stuff again. And so what I wound up focusing in on was in WooCommerce. And this was before all of the automatic acquisition and things of that nature. So I got lucky in that space in that regard that that was the one that one out so to speak, but I looked at my clients to see what was interesting at the time and in the market for myself, as well as for my clients. Do you find anything of that nature like that? You see, like a shift in your client base that says, hey, maybe I should pay attention to something over here.
Kaleigh Moore 28:48
I think that the one thing I’ve really noticed in the past couple of years is that the number of integrations for e commerce platforms has kind of exploded as e commerce continues to grow. So that’s great news for me as somebody who writes for those types of companies, but it’s also another challenge for me too, is like, Can I keep up with all the technology advances with with the applications and understanding how they all work together as like a full stack, essentially, which is very much marketers speak. I can’t believe I just said that. Yeah, I think it’s I think it’s just a matter of like paying attention to the news and like listening to smart people within your industry and seeing what they’re talking about. And just just knowing what’s going on, so that you can see the opportunities when they come up. And you can also kind of protect yourself a little bit too if the bottom is falling out of something as well, you know, right, right.
Jason Resnick 29:42
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I was in a spot because for a long time, I I hitched my wagon to drip. And that was really my only focus was drip. And then my clients who were on jet but they didn’t fit the mold of drip was headed in recent past two years, I guess. And so I was like, Okay, well, I know convert it to that might be a better solution for these types of people while I still have plenty of clients on drip, and it’s an awesome platform and everything like that it just where they were headed and where they were taking it, for me was like a gut thing. Like, some of my clients aren’t going to fit this mold, right. So like, you mentioned Shopify, like they’re going all in in that space. Well, I’m WooCommerce, right. So it didn’t fit that same space and WooCommerce features would get added, once they were done with all the Shopify features, which is never going to happen. So it’s that, like you said, it’s being aware of what’s happening in your world and in your clients world to, you know, see those changes if you can, right. So, you said a bunch of different times, as far as you know, flexible you look forward. that opportunity, interests, things of that nature. What’s up next for the next six to 12 months?
Kaleigh Moore 31:07
Oh my gosh, I always hate when people ask me these questions because I was so bad at thinking about the future. I’m very much like in the now what do I need to get done today, tomorrow this week? I don’t know. I think I really am content with the type of work that I’m doing. So I want to do more of that. I’m, I’m I’m working with Paul on the creative class course, we launched that we’re getting ready to launch it in the fall, and then we have one in the spring. So I’ll continue to do that. I’ve been toying with the idea of my own, like teaching based materials for a while now, like a course or an ebook. I just don’t know. I’m just so I’m always so worried about being a spammy marketer that I took myself out of it. I don’t know. Maybe that’s on the horizon. Maybe not. We’ll see. I haven’t decided. Gotcha.
Jason Resnick 31:53
Yeah, I’m with you on that. Like I do have a course in a community and coaching side of the business. Why? The services does the bread and butter and all that stuff I do sometimes like yourself like, my just spamming these people.
Kaleigh Moore 32:07
No, I mean, if they’re signed up, they obviously like you. I just I need to get out of my own head about it. I need to just commit and do it.
Jason Resnick 32:14
Yeah, it was funny. I had a friend of mine, a great friend of mine, just the other day on the phone. He is asking me He’s like, he’s like, what do you think is stopping you from growing that side of the businesses and me my own head, I gotta get out of my own way a little bit. You know, that’s. But now I get I get that totally. So this was awesome. I appreciate your time and sharing a little bit of your story here and your wisdom here. I love the exit interview. If you’re not doing that sort of thing, dear listener, encourage you to ask questions of your clients that are outside of the projects that you’re working on with them just to better your education, your business, figuring out what they like and don’t like. You’re not imposing on them. technically not salesy, right,
Kaleigh Moore 33:01
they want you
Jason Resnick 33:02
to ask exactly right. So I encourage you to do that. And obviously Kaleigh does as well. Kelly, where can folks reach out and say, thanks.
Kaleigh Moore 33:12
I spend way too much time on Twitter. So Twitter is a great place. Although my first name is really hard to spell. So I’m not even going to try to tell people what my handle is. We’ll just put in the show notes, I guess. So Twitter is a great place. I’m also in my inbox a lot. So I will give my email address help with creative class. We have a podcast for that. Yeah, that’s those are the three best places, I think, awesome.
Jason Resnick 33:35
And I’ll definitely link up all of those in the show notes and everybody can reach out to Kaleigh there and said, thanks, Kelly, thank you for coming on the show and sharing with us your journey today.
Kaleigh Moore 33:46
Yeah, thanks for having me.
Jason Resnick 33:48
And until next time, it’s your time to live in the feast.
If you enjoyed today’s episode, I can speak for both Kaleigh and myself by saying that we’d love to hear the one takeaway that you got from this episode. It’s really super simple. In the podcast app of your choice, presumably this one that you are listening to right now, go ahead and drop that in a comment or review, or go ahead and share it in a tweet and tag me at res and I’d be happy to pass it along to Kaleigh. Don’t forget to hit that subscribe button as well, so that you’re going to be the first to listen in next week when we’ll be back with Adam Clark. Adam is the founder of podcast where I out and he’s going to be coming out from behind the scenes and in front of the mic again to talk about founder market fit. Until then it’s your time to live in the feast.
Season 7: Ideal Client
More episodes in this season:
S07 E01 - How Empathy Maps Can Help You Identify and Understand Your Ideal Clients with Jurgen Strauss
S07 E02 - Creating Flywheels, Asking the Right Questions, and Reverse-Engineering Your Ideal Clients with Nathan Barry
S07 E03 - Positioning Yourself For Your Ideal Client, and Nailing Your Messaging with Krista Rae Miller
S07 E04 – What To Look For In A Changing Market, and The Difference Between a Niche and an Ideal Client with Jessica Mehring
S07 E05 - Exit Interviews, Saying No, and Letting Your Interests Drive Your Business with Kaleigh Moore
S07 E06 - Founder Market Fit, Starting With the Negative, and Figuring Out What You Really Want with Adam Clark
S07 E07 - Meaningful Automation, Event Marketing, and Validating the Avatar with Paul Sokol
S07 E08 - Empathy, Client Education, and How To Shift Your Ideal Client As You Grow with Kate Gilbert
S07 E09 - Podcasting, Networking, and Relationship Building with Jason Resnick
S07 E10 - Improving User Research and Asking the Right Question with Michele Ronsen