S05 E08 - Self-Promotion, Social Media, and Content Marketing with Ilise Benun

Ilise Benun 0:00
The first thing you need to know is who am I reaching out to? Who do I want to work with? Who do I best serve? And once you can identify the ideal clients or the ideal market, then it becomes very clear how to reach them. What media make the most sense to reach them, what message would attract them, and then you can use all of that information to lay out a marketing plan.

Jason Resnick 0:40
Hey, Feasters welcome to episode eight of Season Five of living the feast. I’m Jason aka rez helping you improve your business by having a conversation with someone who’s been there had success and built the business designed around the life they want to live. That’s live in the feast. Ilise Benun has been working with creative professionals for the past 30 years, helping them getting marketing right, at least provides training and education for creative professionals to help them build their marketing plan, target the right sort of client and create a sense of community through the simplest marketing planner. In this episode, we dive into how to get clients with bigger budgets. how creative professionals, web developers, web designers can be great in the business side of things as well. How with three simple tools you can get marketing, right, and how social media fits within your marketing for your business and what you are doing wrong. During this conversation. You’ll hear how Ilise ties everything together nice and simply to reduce the overwhelm by leveraging what’s available to you. And listen closely to the end where I asked her what’s next. If you’ve listened closely to this whole episode, you should shouldn’t be surprised by her answer. This episode is brought to you by feast, the premium online coaching and community designed for developers, designers, marketers and freelancers like you wanting to specialize their business and build recurring revenue that is both profitable and sustainable. Today’s market is ever changing, and yesterday’s advice won’t cut it. feast members get exclusive access to the roadmap and training library, which includes everything you need to niche down, build recurring revenue, and become that go to expert for your services. That together with the monthly roundup calls, exclusive workshops, expert chit chat and our slack community. You’ll have everything you need to build a business around the life of your dreams. If you’re serious about not competing on price, and having those clients that respect you and your expertise, then join fees today, head over to feast course.com if you use the code simplest at checkout, you’ll receive 15% off of the annual membership price.

Hey, Feasters, welcome to season five is all about selling your service. And I’m super excited today to have on the show Ilise Benun. Welcome Ilise. And welcome.

Ilise Benun 3:33
Thank you, Jason. It’s great to be here.

Jason Resnick 3:35
Ilise teaches creative professionals exactly how to get better projects with bigger budgets. Selling your service does not happen without marketing, at least founder of marketing dash mentor, or marketing hyphen, mentor, com, author of seven books, including creative professionals guide to money, which a lot of us creative professionals are terrible at money. So then a great book to pick up host of two podcasts and I’m gonna have to standing 30 year career, she’s seen that most people do marketing backwards. And she’s created the simplest marking planner, which isn’t a course a membership, a journal or download. As you say, Ilise, it’s more like a magazine subscription. So I’m excited to learn a little bit more about that. Why don’t you share with the audience here? Why you do what you do?

Ilise Benun 4:28
Well, I mean, the answer to why is also the answer to how I started. I mean, really, I was just trying to help the people in my orbit in New York, where I lived for 30 years. And they were mostly creative people. And they were disorganized. And I was a little bit more organized. And I just thought that something I can do to help. And so I just started helping people get organized. And I noticed that at the bottom of everybody’s piling, there was always something that had to do with self promotion and marketing or the business side of whatever their creativity was. And in that situation, it was a lot of musicians, and actors and artists, and they were just not doing the self promotion. And so we would get to the bottom of their pile, that would always be something there that they hadn’t done or was too late to do. And I just said let’s do this. Let’s send those people the information they’re looking for, let’s get you into this craft fair, let’s get the word out about the business. And I just noticed that over and over. That was the main problem was people were using clutter to get in the way of their marketing. So I feel like you know, I do what I do. It’s evolved over the years into what is now a marketing mentor. But I do it because it seems to be what people need. And I am just constantly coming across creative people. That’s the world I live in. And whenever I say, you know, I teach people how to get better clients with bigger budgets, their eyes, you know, kind of go wide open. Wow, how do you do that? like as if it’s a big mystery, which you and I know

Jason Resnick 6:10
it’s not? Right. So for those that have got their ears perked up. Now, how do you do that? Well, I do

Ilise Benun 6:18
it a couple different ways. I mentor one on one and guide people step by step through the process of marketing the right way, I’ll talk a little bit if you want about marketing backwards, because that’s what most people seem to do. But I try to guide people in the direction that they’re trying to go. And so you kind of have to know where you’re trying to get to in order for me to help you I can’t tell you where to go. But I do that, you know, one on one, because in a way, it’s a shift of a mindset for most people, most creative people, as you said, you know, think they’re bad with money, don’t want to toot their own horn. And they’re all of these obstacles to the simple things the country intense things people need to do to actually get clients or get better clients. And so I just try to little by little strip that away, and, you know, point you in the right direction. So I do that one on one. I also do it in group small group coaching. I speak I write, I’ve got my podcast, I just tried to deliver the information in all the different ways people might want to consume it.

Jason Resnick 7:24
Yeah, it’s similar to the same thing, I have to cut podcasts myself, obviously, that’s my medium of choice. I enjoy that the most more so than writing. I’ve spoken at some events and things like that. I got a couple of questions, actually. One of which is why do you feel that creative professionals are so averse to some of those things? Like what have you found in working with them that puts them in that mindset that they can’t or they won’t do that, or they’re not comfortable in doing that? What have you found,

Ilise Benun 7:57
it’s really just a lack of education and training. I think at the bottom of it all, I mean, some people were told early on that because they’re good with something creative, they can’t also be good with business or logic or numbers. And I believe that is totally false. In fact, I think it takes a lot of creativity, to build a business, to negotiate to do the business side, the business things people need to do. And in fact, I find that if you can show people how to bring their creativity to the business side, then they actually enjoy it. And in a way, that’s my mission is to show how I show people how to be creative in the business side of their business. But, you know, as I said, it’s education, it’s training, and most art schools, design schools, where you go to learn about the craft, they do not teach you the business side. And so they you know, you go out there, and you know, maybe you get a job for a while, or maybe you’re unemployable like I was or maybe you don’t last long at a job because you really just want to do your art. And so most of the people I work with, you know, do what they do, because they love it. But they also have to make a living at it. And they don’t know how and so really, it’s just education and training that they didn’t get, but sometimes don’t quite realize they need to go get that it’s not too late to get and so they’ve just feel bad like oh, no, I’m never going to be able to do this. It’s you know, it’s distasteful. Me marketing does have a bad connotation. Networking gets a bad rap. And so again, I just try to redefine all of these terms, and help people figure out what is the way they can do it that would be comfortable for each person. I love that.

Jason Resnick 9:44
Yeah, I mean, I had to, you mentioned that, like, you know, he didn’t, you had a skill, you did the freelancing thing for a bit, I almost had went two years. And then I found that I didn’t know anything about the business side of things, the contracts, the marketing, the sales, the call management, the onboarding, the onboarding, all of these things. So I had to go get a job. But I knew what I wanted the direction of where my life was going to take me. I kept that front of mine. And I went and I worked and learned all of those things over time conversation, right, I sought after those conversations to learn what I could do to better my education, my training. And so 2010 is the last time I had a full time job. And for me, it’s funny that you mentioned it, that it’s not too late to learn these things, because I Ryan Carson of treehouse, was on an episode. And he was he literally said on that show that, you know, he’s built a business, very successful business global company. And he’s only now learning how to use sales and marketing to further his business, and further his mission in life. And it was like a revelation to me, it was like, oh, okay, yeah, it’s not too late. You know, it’s very successful. And, you know, you’re very successful. And you say that, like, there’s no, no wrong time to do this. It’s just now like, if you need to know, now’s the way to do it. So

Ilise Benun 11:17
but you know, sometimes people think they should already know. And I feel like that creates what people often call imposter syndrome, that they feel like a fraud, because they’re kind of winging it. And it’s kind of working until it’s not. And then when things get really bad, they panic. And that feels like it’s too late to actually learn or learn enough to get the business back up and running, I come across people a lot, who are who have put themselves in that position. And so that’s why I try to, you know, use content marketing to educate people, so that they can learn, you know, a little bit along the way, and not try to jam it all in, you know, like, like a high school student, right, you know, cramming for a test? Sure, sure.

Jason Resnick 12:06
Yeah, you can’t, you have to set yourself up for some kind of cramming. So what are some of the strategies that you employ? Like I’ve, I’ve listened to some of your talks, I’ve listened to some of your podcasts, read some of your blog posts and things like that. There’s some keys there that I really love things about curiosity, things about relationships? I mean, these are the things that you don’t necessarily hear too many people talking about in their marketing, Can you shed some light on that? Sure.

Ilise Benun 12:36
So let me start with the idea of doing marketing backwards, because I think this is what often people do. And marketing backwards is starting with the marketing tools, Oh, I should do social media, I should be on Instagram, I need to do a blog, I need a newsletter, that’s backwards, the first thing you need to know is who am I reaching out to who do I want to work with? Who do I best serve. And once you can identify the ideal clients or the ideal market, then it becomes very clear how to reach them, what media make the most sense to reach them, what message would attract them. And then you can use all of that information to lay out a marketing plan. And the three tools that I teach this year, and especially in you referred to the simplest marketing planner, and that’s my new marketing plan for 2019. And it focuses on three tools and only three tools. Because again, people get overwhelmed by all the possible marketing tools they could be using, and then they do nothing, they get paralyzed. So I’m just saying three tools built on a foundation. So the foundation is LinkedIn, you usually have to have a really strong LinkedIn profile, and what I call a marketing smart website, which is a website that speaks to the needs of the prospects and clients. It’s not all about you. It’s about their needs and how you serve them. With that foundation in place, you do three tools, strategic networking, targeted outreach, and what I call high quality bat signal content marketing. And curiosity is the root of all of this, especially the content marketing. So you use curiosity, what do you want to know? What do you need to know about your market, and you learn it, and that you turn that into content into the content that you put out there that speaks to the pain points of your ideal clients, and you use it to help develop relationships, because relationships are key. And that’s what marketing is a lot of people think, Oh, I need 1000 prospects? No, you need 25 really good prospects that you can nurture and develop and cultivate relationships with over time? And if you’ve chosen proper, and if it is a viable market, a certain percentage, percentage of those will turn into clients. Hmm,

Jason Resnick 15:07
yeah, I love it. I mean, when somebody says, the three tools that you need, you don’t often think that it’s it’s the work, right? nurturing the relationships, those things that you talking about? Its communication, you don’t need whatever Instagram strategy there is, or whatever the hot tool of the moment is to outreach to folks, you just need that handful of clients that you really can relate to and help in in that sort of sense. You mentioned LinkedIn, right? Is that where you find these strategies work the best?

Ilise Benun 15:47
Well, the thing is that the reason I choose these three tools or these five with the foundation is because they work well together, if you connect the dots of them so that the same people see your message from various angles at all different times than the odds are higher that they’ll see it at a moment when they’re open to it and can actually respond. So LinkedIn is one of those things, because you can use it as your own blog, you can publish your content on your LinkedIn profile, which is better than publishing it on your own blog, because no one’s going to your blog, and they’re already on LinkedIn. So that’s really one of the best ways to use content. And then in terms of connecting with people, if you have a title, the headline, or the title on your LinkedIn profile that speaks to, again, the needs and the pain points and the keywords that your ideal clients would be using to search for someone like you, then when they search, they’ll find you, or if they happen to be looking at someone else’s profile. And they see on the right hand margin, people also viewed and your image your name, and you know, for words of your title come up, and it rings true for them. It’s it represents what they need, then again, that’s a connection, and they may connect with you, or they may accept your invitation, and then you can start a dialogue. So it’s one tool that I would say should not be used in isolation, but in tandem with strategic networking, targeted outreach, because you can do the targeted outreach, which is highly selective and customized outreach, you can do that on LinkedIn. And then they’re already there, they see your high quality bat signal content marketing.

Jason Resnick 17:40
So would your title essentially be your elevator pitch them they’d be some people

Ilise Benun 17:45
put their elevator pitch in their title, some people put a payment, or let’s see if I can think of a good one at the moment. I mean, some people put the what they do and who they do at four in their title, because that really tells everything at the very least it should not be an actual title, right? I mean, LinkedIn was made for people with jobs. And those of us who don’t have jobs, need to develop work around so that it works for us. And so that’s why you know, don’t put Freelancer don’t put even freelance writer or freelance designer, you need to be more specific so that it speaks to the people who might see it and who you’re trying to attract. Yeah, it’s perfect.

Jason Resnick 18:29
Like I have to go on.

Ilise Benun 18:32
Jason.

Jason Resnick 18:35
So you talk about the bat signal content. What is that specifically?

Ilise Benun 18:41
So it’s the difference between developing material about what you know, which is not bad signal content, versus what you know, your clients are struggling with, which is bad signal content. And it’s bad signal because it attracts them because it’s about them. So a lot of and this actually goes for a lot of different types of professionals. We understand what we do, I hope so we want to learn about what we do. We want to disseminate information about what we do. But what we do is probably not all that relevant to the people we do it for all they want to know is that we’ll take care of it, that we will get it done that we will deliver on time that we will do it right. And so if you create content about you know, the latest CMS content management system that you’re using, or one new widget that goes with WordPress, if you’re a website designer, that’s not going to be of interest to your clients. So that’s not bad signal content. bat signal content would be if you’re targeting nonprofits, for example, then you focus your content on what a website needs to be doing to make it easy for people to donate. What should the donate button look like? Where should it be? How many pages should it be on? That’s the content that speaks to the pain points, which is they need more donations speaks to the pain point of that market. Tech clear?

Jason Resnick 20:15
Yeah, hundred percent. I couldn’t agree more. I mean, that was a hard lesson that I had to learn. I’m still learning to this day. And it’s really learning through having conversations with clients. And I’ve had leads that I’ve had sales conversations with, you know, video chats, or face to face, where I’m asking questions, 20 minutes in, we haven’t even talked any sort of technology. And I’ve had them stop me and be like, so I’ve never been asked any of these types of questions before from a developer, are you sure your developer? And I’m just trying to figure out exactly what the project looks like? What Why is it so important to you? How does it affect you? How does it affect your customers? What what’s a home run? What’s a fail? Right? Like, knowing all of these, these answers, helps me be able to one either provide the solution for you, or to know that I can’t do that. And then maybe I can refer you elsewhere.

Ilise Benun 21:16
And, you know, the thing that I find interesting is that a lot of people again, especially creative people who identify as introverts or are shy or think of themselves or shy, or maybe we’re just told early on that they were shy, they don’t really want to talk to anyone. And so trying to help them to cultivate relationships is very difficult, because they don’t really want to do it, they would rather fiddle with their website and make it look pretty or add, you know, more pictures to the portfolio or, you know, tweak I have one client who every day sends me another version of an email outreach, I’m thinking maybe this will be better. What do you think about this one? Maybe this one? Try it. Go ahead. Let’s test an experiment.

Jason Resnick 22:04
Yeah, yeah, I couldn’t agree more. I mean, I’ve, I’ve spoken with some feast community members that that’s a community that I run, where they’re like, I don’t want to be the face of the company, I don’t want to, you know, get up and speak, I don’t want to do podcasts like this. I always say to myself, I have introverted tendencies. And all that really means and, and I was speaking with somebody else about this is really what that means is that I just, I get energy from being by myself. So if I’m around certain a lot of people, or I’m doing a podcast, or I’m at an event or doing extroverted things, then I might need to take a step back later on, and just recharge by being being by myself. And so when I when I share that with them, so look, I have introverted tendencies myself, I never thought that I would be a face anywhere, right? But that’s what attracts you, it helps you stand out. I’m curious, your point of view on the idea of a personal brand, and leveraging that in around the marketing aspects?

Ilise Benun 23:12
Well, you definitely need to know what it is about you and what you do, and how you work that sets you apart from all the other people who do exactly what you do, and are just a click away for your clients. And the trick is that it’s not always the same thing. And that’s why it’s so important to know who your ideal clients are, because at least you can make some generalizations about this group of people will appreciate this about me, whereas not everybody will. And so, to me, the brand needs to be a response to the market, you have to figure out what does the market need? Who are my competitors? Where is the gap that I can fill, then that becomes a variation on my brand. And so many people again, do it backwards, they look at themselves first, and then they go out into the market. And sometimes it’s not a good match. So I always recommend starting with the market.

Jason Resnick 24:16
I like that. Yeah, I mean, I definitely started. As we’re talking here, I definitely started backwards, it took me I guess from about 2002 to 2010. To figure out, Okay, I gotta turn around, and, and figure out what it is, if I really want to get to where I want to go, I have to figure out what people are essentially wanting from me. To you. Right, right, exactly. Right. So I know that you’re not a fan of social media outside of maybe LinkedIn, right? Because you use that as a, as a tool as a tool for business. I myself, I’ve tried just about every platform that’s out there. And I usually do it as an experiment, I give myself a certain time period and a certain result that I’d like to see. And if it doesn’t happen, then a way it goes, right. I’m curious to know, from your perspective, since the internet and the barrier to entry for marketing, especially for younger entrepreneurs, and creative professionals, the idea of marketing is so easy. Now with LinkedIn, and Facebook and all these other things that are giving platforms for marketing, is there a way in which they can mark of market effectively in that space that’s been effective for say, you and I were, were a little bit more on the traditional networking, you know, almost hand to hand combat sense.

Ilise Benun 25:48
It’s not that I am against social media. And I think there is a place for social media. The problem is a couple problems, actually. One is the expert, that it is easy, and all you have to do is tweet or post or do a little video. And people are going to not only follow you, but you know hand you money and offer you a job. It doesn’t work that way. So to me social media is an excellent tool for connecting and creating visibility or keeping your visibility high. But it’s very superficial. And what I think, you know, the traditional way that we’re talking about of cultivating relationships, I think is the part most people are many people don’t understand how you have to use lots of different tools to do that. And you know, some people do it on social media. The thing is, you have to have the right expectations about what is actually possible, and then be consistent with it. And know that you’re in it for the long run, basically. So what’s the expectation of social media that I think is the problem, not social media itself?

Jason Resnick 27:07
That’s Well said, Yeah, I got alerted the other day that I had been on Twitter for now 12 years, which I had no idea. It’s been that long, but put things in perspective. And only last month that I ever wants to tweet out something to say, Hey, I’m selling this DM me to buy it. And I was just an experiment because of the market that I had, that my services played in, was very emotional at that time. And they were emotional on Twitter, and all the other social platforms. I saw it too. But they were emotional, specifically on Twitter. And that’s where I had built all those relationships. And for my business, that was the first time I had many conversations, I wound up getting a good handful of people into my sales pipeline conversation and wound up getting clients but it was a like a long haul 12 years on Twitter, before I even tried to sell something that was a high higher price higher touch service. So yeah, I couldn’t agree more. It’s definitely a really, it’s a social network, I call it a cocktail party, you have to kind of meet people have conversations, see if you can connect, grow those conversations off that platform.

Ilise Benun 28:27
And and I think I mean, this is where content marketing comes in. Because I think social media is perfect for disseminating this high quality content, so that people can understand better what you do, and how you do it. And so when I, you know, use social media, I try to do it in such a way that it’s just sharing. This is where the marketing tool of generosity comes in, which is kind of the partner of curiosity is you’re just sharing information. But it has to be very strategically chosen to position you or to reinforce your positioning to your target market. And I think one of the places people also get confused with social media is that they mix the business and the personal. And so it dilutes your positioning or your brand.

Jason Resnick 29:20
Now, people ask me all the time, like, for a long time, I didn’t put anything personal on social media, and people didn’t know. So it was just kind of broadcasting. And I said, Well, I use it for business. I don’t post things there for personal but now I do because it’s sort of part of the brand. And it gives a little bit of an insight a window into my world. But yeah, I mean, it’s definitely something that I see a lot of people mix, but I I always say, and I’ve heard other people talk about this, too, is I that don’t put something out there on social media, if it’s not something that you want to live forever.

in perpetuity, right. 100%

Ilise Benun 30:04
Yeah. But the other thing about content marketing, I think about it, you said cocktail party that made me think about marinating because I feel like people need to marinate in my content. That’s how I qualify them. Actually, I don’t I’m not ready to talk to anyone unless they’re ready to talk to me. So I want you to know, by reading my stuff, by watching my videos, by getting my newsletter, I want you to know exactly what I stand for. So that when it is obvious that I can help you win, and if because I’m not going to be able to help everyone, then you know exactly what to do, which is sign up for my free mentoring session or, you know, sign up for the newsletter or, but that’s what the content is for. It’s to help people along in that pipeline towards your sales cycle.

Jason Resnick 30:54
Yeah, so the simplest marketing planner, now, when you sent over the link, I, I took a look at the page in and of itself. And immediately I thought journal, because that seems to be the thing that a lot of people are doing at this point. But you highlight it, they’re like, this isn’t a course this isn’t this and that and the other, but you aligned it to a magazine subscription, which I know, as somebody who hadn’t been for a long, long time, I don’t have them now, but someone who has them for a long, long time. That intrigued me. So can you explain a little bit about what this planet is.

Ilise Benun 31:34
So every year, I come up with a new marketing plan. And this year, what I decided is that because I think people buy it, but then they lose it or they don’t use it, or they forget about it, or they just get busy and do other things. And that’s what I’m trying to avoid. So I thought if I create something really simple, it’s two pages. And it it’s a worksheet, basically, a PDF that you fill in, and it’s two pages, and you get it every month on the first of every month you get it. It’s kind of the same document every month with slight differences. But it’s a magazine subscription. It’s like a subscription in the sense that you get it. And the point is, it’s going to remind you if you forgot to do your marketing, if you forgot that you had to do your marketing, it’s going to remind you every month Oh yeah, this is what I should be doing in such a way that you’re not going to feel like you’re falling behind because it’s the same thing every month.

Jason Resnick 32:34
Yeah, it’s great. Because I mean, I you know, like I said it, it reminded me as soon as you aligned it with that I’m like, Oh, I remember running out to the mailbox expecting this thing. And it was that excitement that I knew that that thing was coming. And I think a lot of creative professionals for sure that I’ve talked to marketing in and of itself is frightening me, we’ve spoken a lot about it not frightening, but they’re they’re apprehensive towards it. And having this prompt every single month, here’s what you need to do here, let’s do nudge you a little bit. And here’s all you have to do is these two pages. I mean, that couldn’t be simpler.

Ilise Benun 33:15
And the other thing that I added to it kind of at the last minute, but it seems to be the best part for people is this monthly group coaching call that I call office hours. So once a month, on the first Thursday of the month, actually, I send out a zoom link to everyone who bought the planner, and you just show up. And I give a little presentation focusing on one aspect of the planner, and then I open it up to questions. And the best part is that people see they’re not alone, because that’s the problem with the way we work these days is that everyone’s working in isolation, and you don’t realize that everyone has the same problems. Everyone’s struggling with the same thing. And so this is just an opportunity to see, oh, that person doesn’t have a very good elevator pitch either or, oh, they need to fire their client to, or you know, anything like that. You just see the pricing problems. I mean, it’s really kind of amazing. Yeah,

Jason Resnick 34:14
yeah, I see that in and of itself with feast as well. I mean, we have these monthly group coaching calls, I call them round up calls. And really, it’s just the community coming together and having a discussion and helping each other. And it’s, it’s funny, I mean, I still to this day, I mean, I had a really busy week, and I get stuck in my own head. And I’m like, I, there’s too much going on. And I had but I have this one problem. And it’s really not a problem, like in the grand scheme of things, but it’s just you so close to it. And you’re only working by yourself in your office behind a screen and behind the keyboard. There’s nobody to kind of tap you on the shoulder and say, hey, let’s go to lunch, and then hash it out there. But having these monthly calls, sounds like, you know, brings the community together. Before I let you go. I’m curious, what’s next? What’s next in the next 612 months for you?

Ilise Benun 35:08
Well, what I see I mean, this new planner, and the group coaching that I’m doing is relatively new. And I see that expanding, because it seems like people really do want more community more exposure to colleagues more feedback from their peers. So I’m not exactly sure what it’s going to look like yet. But I’m listening for what the market is going to tell me it needs. So I can provide it all set.

On a good season.

Jason Resnick 35:42
Yes, I love it. Yes, for sure. Well, thank you so much for your time today and sharing your experience and your insights with us. Where can folks reach out and say, Thanks, Mike,

Ilise Benun 35:52
getting dash, mentor calm and everything is there, you can sign up for my quick tips, you can sign up for a free messenger mentoring session. You can find the simplest marketing planner, you can find my YouTube channel, you can find my podcast, it’s all at marketing dash mentor. com.

Jason Resnick 36:09
Great. And we’ll definitely put all of those links in the show notes for you too. quick link off of that. And thanks again for coming on and sharing all of this with you. I gotta go change my LinkedIn profile now. So if you’re listening out there and you don’t have your elevator pitch or it’s not attracting yourself and your profiles on social media, then go ahead and do so as well. It’s great action item to take away from this show if nothing else. So thank you for the invitation. And till next time, short time to live in the feast.

Unknown Speaker 36:55
Are you doing marketing backwards? Is your business a variation of the market? Ask yourself these questions. What stands out to you next week? Your answers to those questions that I just asked you will tie directly into the conversation I had with Mike Killen about sales, marketing and building funnels for your business. Till then it’s your time to live in the feast.