S02 E03 – How to work with agencies as a freelancer with Lee Jackson

 

How to work with agencies as a freelancer with Lee Jackson

Lee Jackson, founder of Agency Trailblazer, helps agencies fall in love with their agency again. He helps other agencies build processes, systems, and get out from under the overwhelming stress being an agency owner can create.

Lee is a family man first and has a phrase “Together is our favorite place to be” is his why. He’s been through it all and in this episode we dive deep into it. But that phrase is his “why.” He loves spending time with his family, no matter where they are and what they are doing.

He’s been burned out, he’s had many difficult decisions to make about his business, yet he’s come out the other end better for it and is one of the most genuine, sincere, and funny people I’ve had the pleasure of talking with.

Go out there and launch something, show up and do something
– Lee Jackson

Lee shares with you:

  • How to improve the relationship freelancers and agencies
  • What understanding your why can do for the focus of your business
  • The best sales tool you can create for your business
As a freelancer, establish yourself as the equal partner to the business, rather than just a glorified employee.Click To Tweet

 

Episode Take Away

Send a Tweet by clicking right here and let Lee and I know you are listening and thinking about your why.

Important Mentions in the Episode

Agency Trailblazer

Lee on Twitter

WP Elevation

Troy Dean

Chris Marr on Live In The Feast

Transcript

Jason Resnick: Welcome to Live in the Feast. I’m Jason Resnick, and for the past decade, I’ve been helping businesses translate their goals into online success as a freelance web developer. In order for me to accomplish my “why” as a freelancer, I needed to live in the feast. Now I’m turning the tables around so you, as the freelancer, can do the same and build the sustainable business to achieve success, so [00:00:30] that you can ultimately live the kind of life you want.
When starting out as a freelancer, even as you build your business and gain experience, oftentimes you start, really, by working with agencies. Maybe your goal as a freelancer is to build an agency. Well, I’m excited to bring on the show Lee Jackson of Agency Trailblazer. He’s a freelancer that’s always had an agency mindset. He’s always had that mindset of documenting processes, [00:01:00] knowing that he’s the expert in the conversation, even if he’s only one or two steps ahead, and he ultimately has understood the “why.”
Today he helps agencies reset and fall back in love with their agency by understanding their “why.” And you’ll know that that’s a big deal for me as well. The takeaway from this episode is to jump on Twitter right now. You can even do this while listening with your earbuds [00:01:30] in, and mention me @rezzz, that you’re listening to the show and thinking about your “why.” Then, take a step back after listening to the show. Take 15, 20 minutes even, to reflect on your “why” and why you started your business in the first place.
So let’s dive in and live in the feast.
This episode is sponsored by Feast. Feast is the roadmap and community built for [00:02:00] freelancers like you looking to take their business to the next level. You didn’t become a freelancer and start your own business because you wanted to work more, right? Want better clients, command higher prices, build recurrent revenue so you can stay out the famine for good? Feast will help you focus and remain accountable through coaching calls, community, an exclusive mastermind group and a ton of resources and tactics that work for today’s market. [00:02:30] Head over to rezzz.com/feast to check it out. And while you’re there, take a look and grab the free lesson and the KPI spreadsheet, which I use to track my own content marketing.
Welcome everybody. I’m proud to be bringing on the show today someone who I think a lot of you should get to know. I’ve crossed paths with him recently. [00:03:00] We’ve been in the same circles. And it’s funny, and we just kind of connected like kindred spirits, so to speak. It’s Lee Jackson. He’s all about building agencies, helping agencies succeed, building from the ground up, too. Like tear down, ground-up kinda thing. And we’ll get into that a little bit more, about how he does that and why he’s done that. So I’m proud to welcome Lee Jackson.

Lee Jackson: Hey, hey. How you doin’ mate?

Jason Resnick: How’s it going? So for [00:03:30] those of you out there that don’t know who Lee is, Lee can you just give us your elevator pitch, so to speak?

Lee Jackson: My elevator pitch? Wow. My name is Lee Jackson. I run an agency that works with designers all around the world and we translate their design into WordPress themes. So we super-niched right down just to WordPress, so that’s all we do. We build WordPress themes and plugins for design agencies. So we’re a digital department for those guys. We do an awful lot more, but you did say “elevator pitch.”

Jason Resnick: [00:04:00] This is true. Right. Answered the question. So to really back it up a little bit: What’s your “why”? Why did you start a business yourself instead of just going to work for an agency or some other consulting firm?

Lee Jackson: Okay. Well, I guess I’ve got two “whys” then. One’s a personal “why” for my family and then the other “why” is my mission. But the personal “why” for my family is to be able to travel and spend lots of time together. [00:04:30] Our motto is that, “Together is our favorite place to be.” So if I’m tied up at the office all of the time, then we’re not together, therefore, I’m not in my favorite place, and we’re not building those memories, etc. So that’s kind of personal “why.” The mission “why” is that having been in agency life for so many years myself in the design industry, trying to outsource to other people and being super, super stressed out with that, and finding freelancers or third-party companies [00:05:00] getting so far and over-promising and under-delivering and all of these sorts of problems, I really wanted to try and solve that problem for my clients. So I wanted to take the stress out of the web-build process for design agencies. So that’s been my mission.
It has kind of evolved now to a lot wider, because I see a lot of design agencies just generally not liking what they’ve built because of circumstances, etc. So they’re feeling stressed out, they’re feeling unhappy with the business that they’ve got, so it’s become a wider passion [00:05:30] now to actually help out in kind of that whole wider sphere, help people love their business again. So that’s our mission. So I guess that’s two answers for the same question. Am I allowed?

Jason Resnick: Definitely. Yes. That’s awesome. So first of all, that’s great to hear the first point, and it’s telling of who you are that that’s the first point, right? I love that saying, “Together is my favorite place to be.” That’s kind of how I’ve started my own business, or the reason why I started by own [00:06:00] business, so I could be home. Be with my son, now, my wife, just that family time’s important. So that’s awesome.
And then two, I mean, hearing all about the agency life. You know, it’s funny, I’ve been in large agencies, very boutique agencies and stuff, and no matter how big or small they are, they always have those same problems. And we can definitely unpack that, because I think a lot of the audience looks to broaden their client [00:06:30] base by bringing on another skill set to become like that virtual agency, so to speak. A lot of developers pair with designers. A lot of designers pair with marketing folks. Marketing folks pair with writers. Like those kind of natural extensions of what they do. What drives you to work with agencies rather than solo just business owners?

Lee Jackson: Mainly because agencies … You’ll have the one solo [00:07:00] person who runs that agency, and they feel very lonely at that point, even though they’re surrounded by their team. They actually feel like everything rests on them, and there’s a lot of stress and pressure. And I really relate to that, because when I was running my agency, I had 15 employees, and despite the fact I had all of these people around me, I felt so freaking lonely and stressed out. So I really wanted to reach out to those people and help those people. So I’ve learnt so much in [00:07:30] my time, and I’m seeing other people almost look helpless and not know their way through it. And all they need is a good friend, a good friendly community, or a good friend like me, or someone who’s experienced what they’ve experienced. And I’m certainly not saying I’ve got it all nailed, but I’ve certainly made some [inaudible 00:07:46] mistakes in my life, which really help me to help other people avoid them, or to help them find their way through if they’re already deep in whatever it is they’re doing.
And obviously, for the agencies, the reason, [00:08:00] again, why I focused on agencies was because, as for me, when I originally started as a freelancer, agencies were a great source of leads, because they were already building up all of the relationships with all of these different sectors. Therefore, my niche is agencies, no matter what their niche is, which has given me the ability to work on medical websites, or law websites, realtor websites, knitting websites, you name it. We’ve got to work on some really cool [00:08:30] industries, which we have no reason to be in, but because our agency client, who is our niche, get. That’s their niche, and they are killing it in that niche and we are getting to be a part of that. So, it’s definitely one thing for freelancers, especially if you’re looking at finding a source of leads, etc., is to add value to agencies and be their rockstar, so that they’re relying on you, and they’re gonna be feeding you a constant source of great leads for [00:09:00] all sorts of different websites.
And it also brings your cost of acquisition right down. If you’re trying to find a new business owner, locally, all the time to build a new website for, then that cost is on you. Whereas if you are receiving leads coming in from three or four existing agencies, they’re doing all of that hard work, and all you’re doing is that receiving, sending a quote, and doing the work. So that’s a lot less trouble. That’s a lot less schmoozing you have to do, as long [00:09:30] as you look after your agencies well and become their rockstar.

Jason Resnick: Yeah. I mean, that’s how I began. And I think that’s how a lot of freelancers begin, too. ‘Cause agencies, at least from my experience, they’ve always gone into overflow work. They never have enough people to handle all of the projects that are coming in. Their sales team is going out and making those sales. And then, usually, it’s the doers, the workers that get squashed, right? Those are the people who are [00:10:00] working late, hard deadlines, that kind of stuff. And being that I worked in an agency, or several agencies, rather, and various different sizes, I recognized that when I first started and struck out on my own and said, “Why don’t I just reach back and find those other agencies? Those busy agencies and see if I could be, like you said, the rockstar that comes in, ‘Hey, I can do this work.'”
I don’t like to sell and market and all that other kind of stuff. I’m not a sales guy. [00:10:30] I don’t enjoy that process. I mean, it’s a necessary evil, but it’s something at which, for me … I’d much rather spend my time doing. So to have them, like you said, they’re in there, they’re established, they’re getting the work, they’re doing their thing. Now it’s just me to be able to deliver on that work. And I think that a lot of people find themselves, at least right off the bat, to do that. I mean, definitely a good way to get your name out there.
So [00:11:00] my question here that I’ve … And maybe this is a little bit selfish for me, but I’m always curious. So I’ve moved away from contract work through agencies. One of the things that always bugged me was they looked at me as a worker, another person in their office so to speak that, “Hey, I need you to do this. I need you to work within my PM system. I need you to follow these systems and these workflows that we’ve [00:11:30] defined in our business” and all that. It was always hard for me to kind of shift their mindset just a little bit to say, “Hey, look. I need you to send me emails into Help Scout. Can you just use this email address rather than sending me to my personal email?”
How can you get an agency to work better with contractors and vice-versa? Is there any tricks to that?

Lee Jackson: Well, I certainly struggled with that. So all of these different systems and it was almost becoming a case of trading time [00:12:00] for money. I’d even agreed several times that I would, in theory, I’d lowered my rate and I would have to time everything. And it just became like I was a glorified employee, and it was very, very de-motivating. So I fired that client and I actually went out finding new agency clients where I approached them as equals, as a partner. So I was no longer somebody that you would just outsource a little bit of code to, when you’re ready, but I was actually their WordPress consultant, and I was coming in right from the very beginning where I was going [00:12:30] to help them in the quoting process as well.
So the special niche for me was finding design agencies that do not do websites as a … They don’t have the whole team, which elevated me more, because they needed my experience, they needed my knowledge to be able to negotiate with clients, to understand what the client need, to create the product specification document. To then be able to take that into some sort of project management system and [00:13:00] to actually then build and deliver and test. So they were constantly looking to me for the next step. So I established myself as an equal to the directors of that business, the CEOs, etc. I am a business. You’re a business, and we’re gonna work on this project as equals. And then I would consult, etc.
Which also meant that, although sometimes we do still use our client’s project management systems, if we approve of them, because some of them are awful, but most of the time, people will actually use our [00:13:30] processes and [inaudible 00:13:32] go through ours. And that was the same four years ago, when I was freelancing, ’cause I’ve always had that agency mindset. I always write down my processes. I have processes for the software that we use and how we do it, etc. So I was doing that right from the get-go, thinking like an agency, even though I was a freelancer. And then that’s just continued to this day, where we have that same relationship with, I would say, 90% of our clients. There are a small 10% of the clients where we just literally get the files when they’re ready and we do the work and [00:14:00] we turn it around and send it back. But that’s pretty rare. We’re still considered the consultants and an equal partner, rather than just considered the back office boy or girl who has to churn out some code and send it back when they’re ready.

Jason Resnick: Yeah, definitely. That’s great. There was a lot there, especially in how you’re approaching them. You’re already approaching them, one, on their level as an equal. I’m a business. You’re a business. And you’re setting [00:14:30] forth the value that you can bring to them. Your strategy, your expertise and stuff like that. And I think that a lot of people struggle with that, especially in the beginning. They’re like, “Oh, well, who am I? I’m not an expert. I just know how to write code or I know how to design a website or something like that.” But to have that initial confidence to come out. And I’m always saying, “Hey, just keep doing it. If you do it once and it doesn’t work out, don’t think that it’s not gonna work on the next. You’ve just gotta keep [crosstalk 00:14:57] that confidence.”

Lee Jackson: Absolutely. You learn anyway from those [00:15:00] mistakes. But also, remember that whenever you put yourself down, that’s then gonna be self-fulfilling prophesy, because you believe that lie. Well, actually, you can do it. Was it Henry Ford? “Whether you think you can or you think you can’t, you’re probably right.” Well, think that you can, and remember that you actually know, even if it’s one or two things more that you know than the person you’re working with, that still makes you the expert, you’re still already dead ahead. You still already have value to offer, because you’ve already been through [00:15:30] the extra part of the journey to learn what you know, that you can then, therefore, add value and help that agency. Therefore, you can approach that agency or that client as an equal, as a business, as an expert in your field.

Jason Resnick: Yeah.

Lee Jackson: Yeah.

Jason Resnick: That’s great. Yeah, that’s awesome. And it’s funny that you started out as a freelancer, but you always had that agency mindset. And it’s something that I had to learn for myself, I was just like, “Oh, hey, I’m just gonna do this myself and I’ll kinda wing it as I go.” But [00:16:00] I started to learn that documentation, knowing what your process is and stuff like that not only benefits you, but it also benefits your clients, because every single client goes through that same thing, and you know that no matter who you’re talking to, they got that same email, they had that same experience. Whether it’s just interacting with you through Help Scout or something like that. But my thing is is always thinking about documentation, so that I can optimize my business, [00:16:30] right? Because I’m very profit oriented. So if I can shave off a couple of minutes, or a half hour out of a process, just because I’ve documented and I’ve gone through that document over and over again, hey, that’s more profit. I’m doing the same work, but I’ve shaved the time, so that’s profit.
And I think that, a lot of times, agencies don’t do this as well. So I’m curious, and I know that you have that reset button so to speak, on Agency [00:17:00] Trailblazer, where you’re basically going in there and saying, “Hey look. I understand your problems, we’re just gonna bring it back to square one and kinda build you back up.” Is that sort of documentation and thinking and mindset of an agency a part of that reset?

Lee Jackson: Absolutely. So understanding what you do and how you do it. But also, we go right back to the very first question that you asked me, which was also your “why.” So it starts off with your “why,” working out your strengths, working out what [00:17:30] problems you solve as a result of those strengths and then working out who you do it for. That’s kind of like the very beginning. And it’s the bit that most agencies miss, and the bit that most of us freelancers miss as well, because we basically start with a few clients quickly, and then we realize we need to make some money, so we then say yes to another project. And before we know it, we’ve developed a business of building sites in a particular industry, which we don’t really have any particular passion for, and we’re probably doing work we don’t even like doing. Maybe [00:18:00] we’re building apps, because someone once asked for us to build an app, so now we’re all building apps all the time. And hey, it brings the money in, so I’m doing it, but I absolutely don’t like it. And it’s a stress and it’s not my strength, and all of those sorts of things.
So that’s what that whole part’s about, the first set, which we’re doing this month. But we very much then go into that process understanding how do you do it, how to refine that process, how to project manage that process as it were, as well. Because if you’ve got that process down, it means [00:18:30] you can actually hire other people and get other people involved to do the bits that you’re not very good at. But it also becomes an amazing selling tool. So if you, as a freelancer, can go to your client and not only say, “We’re gonna look after you.” But, “Hey, here’s our documentation on how we’re gonna look after you. Flippin’ heck, that skyrockets your credibility, because they know you’re organized.
Unfortunately, freelancers, and I struggled with this for years, we get a bad name because people … You’ve heard of the term “flakey freelancer” who disappears, who goes on holiday, who calls in sick. And that’s horrible. That’s horrible to have that [00:19:00] stigma against the freelance community, ’cause we’re all wonderful, hardworking people. And there’s only a very small, minute group that do that, who spoil it for the rest. Whereas, if we can go there with our documentation, with our processes, with our confidence, approaching people as partners rather than just the code person at the back of the room, then that’s gonna elevate you as a freelancer. It’s gonna give you your own personal confidence. But it’s also gonna, hopefully, pour lighter fluid on those sales.

Jason Resnick: Yes. Yeah.

Lee Jackson: Rant over. [00:19:30] Was that preach? I’m not really sure. That was kind of rant/preach.

Jason Resnick: Yeah. Yeah. Soap box. It’s funny, because I got called “flakey freelancer” or “the freelancer that goes awol.” That kind of stuff. We’ve all experienced clients that come to us with that problem. It’s already they’re coming to us with baggage. I’ve tried to deflect that, because I say, “Hey, look, I can appreciate your emotions of the experience that you had with that one. [00:20:00] But I have no idea who that person is, nor do I do anything remotely like that. I’m always gonna communicate with you.”
I have a metric in my own business. I heard it from somebody else is, if a client reaches out to me then maybe I did something wrong. Like, “What’s the status on this?” So I make sure that I’m always staying ahead. ‘Cause I think a lot of that is trust. As a freelancer, most of the time, this is how we communicate through Skype or something like that. We’re not in the office. [00:20:30] So that level of trust and communication needs to be elevated more so, Where you’re working 6, 7, 8 hours a day, whereas the person that’s in the cube, probably working four. I mean, let’s be honest. They’re [inaudible 00:20:45] other things, right? So that’s kinda how I look at those kinda things.
So let’s get back to Agency Trailblazer, because it’s funny that … I have Feast, and I think [00:21:00] having that educational product or that membership community … I think those are important nowadays, only because you don’t learn this stuff at university or college or anything like that. And I feel like what we do as far as contractors go, if you just boil down to contractors, that’s growing, and it’s always gonna continue to grow. I mean, Forbes says that within 2020, 50% of the U.S. workforce is gonna be contract based. I mean, that’s a huge, [00:21:30] huge number.
But to be able to learn from other folks and have that community, like as you said in the beginning, just that voice, that kind of support. Like, “Hey, you’re alone, but you’re not. We’re here to help too.”
What was the genesis of saying, “Hey, look. I wanna help other agencies grow. I want them to fall … ” like you say, “fall in love with the agency again”? What was the genesis of you creating [00:22:00] that product? That community?

Lee Jackson: I guess the very, very short answer is that my business can help a few agencies right now. So I can consult with them and I can build websites and take some areas of stress out of their lives. And that’s great, but that means I can only serve maybe up to 30 businesses in any one year. Of the start of 2018 I just added 52 new agencies that I know I’m already helping by launching the Agency Trailblazer [00:22:30] community. And we’re loading all the information and the processes and swipe files and stuff that we’ve learned all over the years, and we’re putting it all in one place and creating community for those people. So it was being able to help many people. That mission, right from the very beginning, of taking stress out of agency life has certainly grown and grown and become more of a deeper passion. And that’s why I thought: this community is gonna be perfect, because we can help many people by creating content once, but then being part of that community and supporting everyone.
And then, the [00:23:00] other reason why anyone should probably launch some kind of membership, or some kind of community support is the fact that we don’t all know everything, and I’m still in a learning process, but if you wanna learn something, go ahead and teach it, because you will have to learn it anyway. And then, through the process of teaching, you’re gonna learn and unpack things more. I mean, even on this podcast, when you ask me a question, it unlocks things … I say things [00:23:30] out loud that have been locked away and I’ve never really thought them through and then you’re processing them out loud and you’re like, “Oh my gosh, that sounded really good. And it’s also true, and I also believe it.”
But so again, by teaching, it just unlocks this creativity and this inner knowledge that you don’t realize you have. And although you’re scared to do it at first, your confidence peaked curve just keeps going up and up and up, because you start to realize: I know a hell of a lot more than I give myself credit for. Because we all have a negative bias, don’t we, towards ourself. We compare [00:24:00] ourselves to other people. “I’m not Jason Resnick, he’s got this great podcast with a great logo on his T-shirt. I could never do that.” Do you know what I mean? Let’s get away from that kind of negativity on ourselves and let’s go out there and launch something. Show up and do something. It’s so cool.

Jason Resnick: Yeah, yeah. And it’s funny, too, ’cause I mean, there are a lot of these communities and a lot of these education products. And I hate that term, like, “info product.” ‘Cause it’s, yeah, it’s information, but I think it’s … You really have to, and I got this from [Chris Mar 00:24:29] [00:24:30] is: Look, you can buy these things. You can buy into the community because you wanted that one template or that one swipe file or whatever it is. But when you actually study and you consume and take action on what you’re learning inside these communities, that’s the real benefit. That’s when you’re gonna get like, “Hey, look, I’m spending 50 bucks a month, or I spent $400, $500, $2,000 dollars a year on this thing.” It sounds so expensive. But if you take one action [00:25:00] out of those things and get a client for $5,000 dollars, or $10,000 dollars or more. Well, that ROI on that one little action … I mean, it’s a no-brainer, right?

Lee Jackson: Absolutely.

Jason Resnick: I mean, and it’s funny, too, ’cause there’s tons of them out there. If you haven’t joined one, you have to find the right one. Like Agency Trailblazer, it’s really specific towards agencies, right? There’s Feast, for me, we have virtual agencies, folks that run virtual agencies in there. But it’s [00:25:30] tailored more towards the solo business owner, because that’s who I am. And I, like I said, dump my knowledge into it. So definitely it was very interesting, because I was like, “Oh a lot of the stuff that you’re doing in Agency Trailblazer, I’m kinda doing in here, but I’ve also learned from other communities that everybody kinda does the same thing.” I think joining a community, make sure it’s your niche. What are you looking to get out of that? And what can you add [00:26:00] into it to help other folks as well?

Lee Jackson: You’re right there, as well, because you’ve got WP Elevation with Troy Dean and that’s very much focused at WordPress consultants. So, yes, you have a freelance community, but if you’re building Joomla! websites, probably the WP Elevation isn’t for you. You’re probably looking for a different community. But I think that’s the community element as well. You pay 50 bucks to go and learn something, but the accountability of having community. So being in WP Elevation, or being [00:26:30] in Feast and knowing there is community and accountability and you can share your wins and as well as your failures. But when you do something within a course, or you get to that next level and win a client, the first place you want to go is to the community forum to go and share it with everyone else. And then everyone’s like, “Yes! Brilliant!” And it’s that feeling of: I’m not alone. I’m part of this big group of awesome people.

Jason Resnick: Yeah, definitely. And that’s why I thinks a lot of people get burned out, too, is that they’re part of a multitude of these communities. They’re like, “Oh, they’re all the same.” But what have you [00:27:00] studied inside of that community? If you’re a part of WP Elevation, or you’re part of Agency Trailblazer, yes, you’re probably getting a lot of business knowledge? Like you said, are you a Joomla! developer? Then what are you doing in WP Elevation? Or …

Lee Jackson: [crosstalk 00:27:17] for a Joomla! developer.

Jason Resnick: But if you’re trying to just be solo and scale your business, but you’re a Joomla! developer, [00:27:30] why are you in WP Elevation and Agency Trailblazer? Just to get those little bits and nuggets. You might not be getting the great value out of it. Go find, I don’t know, Joomla! Elevation Trailblazer. Whatever it is. So I think a lot of people with the membership communities and stuff are getting a little jaded with it, because of that. But at the same time, you’ve gotta really find it. Don’t join every one that comes out. Make sure that you’re gonna get some value out of it.
[00:28:00] So I know we’re coming up on time. This has been awesome. I have to ask one question, and I think that a lot of people ask this, too. If you were to start out today building your business, what’s the one process that you would define so that you can move forward and automate that?

Lee Jackson: The one thing that I would totally have done right at the very beginning is actually understanding my entire web- [00:28:30] build process, so that I could have actually then put that out on a Gantt chart. We actually now live by this Gantt chart for every single build process. And they’re all pretty much the same. You’ve got your initial discovery, etc. etc. And we can break every single step of the entire process of a web build, even if that web build includes creating or doing some random API integration, or creating a plugin that doesn’t even exist on the planet. We’ve manged to create this entire process that means we never forget anything. [00:29:00] And I feel like if I’d have launched my business and launched by trying to plan out my web build process and my Gantt chart to go with it, then I would’ve understood much sooner how to manage multiple projects at the same time. I’d have understood how to quote and how much to quote, because I would’ve realized how much was involved. And I’d have also been able to communicate with my clients super, super well, because I would have been … I already know what’s happening next. I know [00:29:30] what’s coming up in two weeks. I can already be telling them. Or I can already be telling them that, “If you’ve not give me this by then, it’s gonna move your project along a whole load more weeks.”
So I think that’s … Now that we’ve nailed our project lifecycle, everything runs smoothly, and we can churn websites out, and it’s absolutely wonderful. And I didn’t do that for about two and a half years. It was all just reactive, reactive, and we upset so many people. I underquoted so many times and lost control of multiple projects and had to [00:30:00] work weekends and late nights, 20 hour days sometimes, till 4:00 a.m. in the morning. Two hour’s sleep before getting up to fix a final bug before it went live at 9:00 a.m. The struggle is real. So that web-build process from initial discovery meeting right through to go live, QA testing, content input, go live. I wish I could go back in time.

Jason Resnick: That’s awesome. I mean, you know. I think that’s something that a lot of people struggle with. They’re like, “Oh, I gotta get [00:30:30] clients, get a clients, get clients.” But they don’t know the solution that they’re providing these clients.

Lee Jackson: Exactly. If you’ve got that process, that helps you get clients, because you can tell them what to expect. You can’t ell them how you’re gonna help them, and you can tell them when they’re gonna get it. And there’s nothing more attractive than someone coming to you and saying, “I’ve got you. I know how to do this. I will look after you, and I will take you through the process.” ‘Cause remember, most people have no clue how to build a website, or how to get a design piece done, or whatever creative [00:31:00] service you are providing, they are literally out of their depth. And if somebody comes in with confidence and has an entire process and that person feels like they’re gonna be looked after by you, that’s gonna increase your chances by insert-random-percentage-here. Because they’re going to feel so much more safer and securer with you.

Jason Resnick: That’s great. That’s a awesome way to end this, too.

Lee Jackson: Nice.

Jason Resnick: So where can folks reach out to you and say, “thanks”?

Lee Jackson: All righty, well just head on over to [00:31:30] agencytrailblazer.com. You will find a nice little video of me with me cap, and we are in the process of moving our podcast over to there. If you wanna hear our podcast, that’s on angledcrown … well, no. I’ll give you a different domain. wpinnovator.com. That’s easier. wpinnovator.com/podcast. But we are actually moving everything over to Agency Trailblazer over the next few weeks, because of the big rebrand. We used to be WP Innovator, because of Word Press, but we’ve changed our name.

Jason Resnick: Awesome.

Lee Jackson: So I’ve got two websites [00:32:00] going on at the moment, so it’s a bit confusing.

Jason Resnick: That’s awesome. Thanks, Lee. I appreciate you coming on and sharing your experience. And definitely a ton of action items that he pulled out. And all of that stuff is gonna be in the show notes as well. So thanks again, Lee.

Lee Jackson: Thanks, buddy.